WineXpert Fwk verse winexpert

[oppyland]

If he does decide to add some labeling he would be well advised to meet all legal requirements for it. So whether he has to legally or decides to as a gesture of good will to *some* customers, the method by which the labeling is done is exactly the same. Personally, I don't care if he labels, but I would care if the cost goes up because he does.

Maybe I'm in the minority in this opinion - certainly wouldn't be the first time!

 

[cmason1957]

I am going to suggest that if you really, really believe these labeling requirements do anything, that perhaps you should call and/or send them an email and suggest they add them. My guess is that due to the kits being 100% grape juice of the type indicated on the label (except for the blend kits) they aren't required to have them. More than likely their lawyer has already said this is what is required.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

I am going to suggest that if you really, really believe these labeling requirements do anything, that perhaps you should call and/or send them an email and suggest they add them. My guess is that due to the kits being 100% grape juice of the type indicated on the label (except for the blend kits) they aren't required to have them. More than likely their lawyer has already said this is what is required.

Is it 100% grape juice? That’s my point, please show me it is. Or have they added acids etc? Even Welch’s 100% grape juice requires an ingredient statement. Oh well, off to rack my WE Coconut Yuzu and FWK Forte Bordeaux

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

My frozen must has nutritional but no ingredients or allergen.

 

[Resonant11]

My frozen must has nutritional but no ingredients or allergen.

If you feel like you've uncovered some sort of flaw within the wine kit industry, I think it could be more valuable for you to reach out to the businesses directly. Trying to convince people in this thread who don't represent the companies involved does not seem productive. The business may actually be able to provide a substantive response rather than speculation.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Not trying to convince anyone, just stating my observations and personal opinions like everyone else…but it would be nice to hear from those companies and get an understanding on what /why they may or may not do things.

 

[TurkeyHollow]

My frozen must has nutritional but no ingredients or allergen.

Isn't that it right on the label "Grape Must"? It even has the varietal and vintage.

International Code of Oenological Practices OIV Code Sheet – Issue 2015/01 I.1.2-1 2. MUSTS 2.1 GRAPE MUST (18/73) Liquid product obtained from fresh grapes, whether spontaneously or by physical processes such as: crushing(*), removing stems from grape berries or crushed grapes (*), draining(*), pressing (*). International Code of Oenological Practices OIV Code Sheet – Issue 2015/01 I.1.2-1

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Isn't that it right on the label "Grape Must"? It even has the varietal and vintage.

International Code of Oenological Practices OIV Code Sheet – Issue 2015/01 I.1.2-1 2. MUSTS 2.1 GRAPE MUST (18/73) Liquid product obtained from fresh grapes, whether spontaneously or by physical processes such as: crushing(*), removing stems from grape berries or crushed grapes (*), draining(*), pressing (*). International Code of Oenological Practices OIV Code Sheet – Issue 2015/01 I.1.2-1

Good info …so the term grape must is clearly defined there. So since they have no other ingredients, one would assume it’s only grape must and no additives?

 

[TurkeyHollow]

Good info …so the term grape must is clearly defined there. So since they have no other ingredients, one would assume it’s only grape must and no additives?

I don't know for sure but I would think if it were modified or "balanced" it would then be considered a kit. It would be nice if a lawyer or member of FDA would chime in on some of these threads for clarification. Although a lawyer won't do it unless being compensated and FDA won't talk shop during "off hours".

 

[cmason1957]

How about send a message to Mateo or an email to Labelpeelers and ask them, rather than a bunch of folks who may have industry experience, but not in the winekit rules guessing what the rules are and how they are applied.

 

[RCGoodin]

I just bottled a FWK Chardonnay that I started in late October and two WE kits, Viognier and Pinot Grigio, that I started a couple of month before that. The Viognier and Pinot are good - you could actually drink them now. The FWK Chard is rough, as it has been all along. It might mellow out in a year or so, but I wouldn't bet on it. It still remains the roughest, harshest tasting wine I ever tasted at any stage of the game. I made a FWK Merlot with one skin pack close to a year ago that's still in the carboy. That one is tasting pretty good. But in view of some of the other comments on the FWK whites and my own experience with the Chardonnay, I'm gonna stick with WE whites until I hear things have greatly improved with the FWK whites. Something is just not right with them!

I just bottled a FWK Sauvignon Blanc and it was dark but tastes great, just li,like, Matteo said it would. I can live with the darkness. I love the flowering bouquet.

 

[Swedeman]

I think it could be more valuable for you to reach out to the businesses directly. Trying to convince people in this thread who don't represent the companies involved does not seem productive. The business may actually be able to provide a substantive response rather than speculation.

This comment is made as a general one and has no bearing on FWK, WE or any other company mentioned in this thread. FWIW I really like FWK's concept and wish them all the best.

In my experience it isn't helpful to ask companies directly, a simple yes or no isn't enough. Over the years I have had numerous contacts with small companies or start-ups within the food industry either as competitors, when doing acquisitions or purchasing goods. Coming from a large company myself. I have never met a company who said "no, we are not following the rules" when asked about our suspicions that something might be wrong. In the majority of cases when rules or legislation wasn't followed, that wasn't knowingly. They thought they were correct. There are/were also companies that didn't care about legislation but still said "yes, we're following all rules". (something that could jeopardize food safety and causing us as a company big financial loss or for a retail product, perhaps giving them a competitive advantage on the market that they shouldn't have.)

But a simple "no, it's not required" with a link to the legislation showing that would of course be a perfect response.

My guess is that due to the kits being 100% grape juice of the type indicated on the label (except for the blend kits) they aren't required to have them.

Even if the must is 100% grape juice the kit isn't as other ingredients are included in the kit of which some are allergens. Even the wine bottles you buy in the US must have "contains sulfites" when above 10ppm.

"The Food Allergy Labeling and Consumer Protection Act of 2004 (FALCPA) mandates that manufacturers of packaged foods produced in the United States identify, in simple, clear language, the presence of any of the eight most common food allergens – milk, egg, wheat, soy, peanut, tree nut, fish and crustacean shellfish – in their products. The presence of the allergen must be stated even if it is only an incidental ingredient, as in an additive or flavoring."
.

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

Hello all, hope everyone is doing well. As usual, I follow everything you guys write and you’ve touched on some issues that need clarification. Finer Wine kits contain raw must and skins that must be cooked or fermented before consuming, just like frozen must that is sold. The FDA does not require nutritional facts on raw fruit products not made for immediate consuming. Hope this helps.
Matteo

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Hello all, hope everyone is doing well. As usual, I follow everything you guys write and you’ve touched on some issues that need clarification. Finer Wine kits contain raw must and skins that must be cooked or fermented before consuming, just like frozen must that is sold. The FDA does not require nutritional facts on raw fruit products not made for immediate consuming. Hope this helps.
Matteo

Thank you for the response and clarity here @Matteo_Lahm. The question I think some may have (me included), does the FWK contain and additives such as stabilizers? Preservatives? Or extenders? Or possible allergens? While The wine kit industry is not required to do so, it would seem like a good idea to give consumers confidence and transparency, no? Some seem to provide nutritional info and allergens, while very few provide ingredient statements. The Inconsistency from kit mfr to mfr is what has caused so many questions. Some state their kits have been “balanced”, this would lend you to believe they have added such additives, wouldn’t it?

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

Our kits contain raw fruit agricultural products. We provide a specialized balancing package that is formulated for each kit the consumer add on their own to balance.

Thank you for the response and clarity here @Matteo_Lahm. The question I think some may have (me included), does the FWK contain and additives such as stabilizers? Preservatives? Or extenders? Or possible allergens? While The wine kit industry is not required to do so, it would seem like a good idea to give consumers confidence and transparency, no? Some seem to provide nutritional info and allergens, while very few provide ingredient statements. The Inconsistency from kit mfr to mfr is what has caused so many questions. Some state their kits have been “balanced”, this would lend you to believe they have added such additives, wouldn’t it?

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Our kits contain raw fruit agricultural products. We provide a specialized balancing package that is formulated for each kit the consumer add on their own to balance.

@Matteo_Lahm …Perfect, so to be clear, are you stating that the must bag contains no additional products, additives or stabilizers? It’s only 100% fruit? That’s the answer that I’m hoping to walk away with. I know the additional ingredients are provided, but we are only asking about the must specifically. Btw, thanks for the engagement here, it’s really appreciated as we all love your product!

 

[Matteo_Lahm]

it’s 100% juice and skins with a small amount of sulfites to prevent spontaneous fermentation. As for sulfites, it is naturally occurring whether added or not. Yeast fermentation produces sulfites and in wines that do not contain it, it has to be removed.

Perfect, so to be clear, are you stating that the must bag contains no additional products, additives or stabilizers? It’s only 100% fruit? That’s the answer that I’m hoping to walk away with. I know the additional ingredients are provided, but we are only asking about the must specifically. Btw, thanks for the engagement here, it’s really appreciated as we all love your product!

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

jackpot!! That’s music to my ears!

 

[TCPT18]

Does anyone have a picture of an ingredient label from fwk red?

I don't but asked via email for what was in each packet and got a very complete answer. I don have that list at hand but will share if I can find it

 

[TCPT18]

Response regarding ingredients in FWK.

Good morning

I started 18 gallons each of super Tuscan and zinfandel kits. I am pleased to see nutrients and fermentation oak etc in the kits. I have a couple of questions as I like to know what's going into my wine. Hopefully you have the answers.

The oak chips and cubes. Medium toast French or something else?

Packet A..what is in this. I speculate Kmeta, and nutrient. Which nutrients? DAP, fermaid, fermax? Anything else?

Packet B...starter pack. I thought it might be go ferm but the texture is not right. What is in this packet?

Packet C... second nutrient. Again which nutrients? Anything else?

Packet D ...sorbate?

Ph 3.6ish TA 4.5 to start. See about right?

Can this product undergo MLF?

Thanks. I am looking forward to trying the finished product.

Best

Susan Hammond


Susan,

Thank you for your FWK order. The Chips are American Medium and the Cubes are French Medium. Packet A is Pectic Enzyme and Yeast Nutrient (DAP and Food Grade Urea) and Acid Blend. Packet B is Cane Sugar for Yeast Starter. Packet C is second dose of Yeast Nutrient. Packet D is Potassium Metabisulphite and Potassium Sorbate. Your right on with your PH and Acidity. It sounds like you definitely know what you are doing.

Unlike a normal pasteurized kit, you can in fact use MLF with these kits.

Have a great day!
—
Matt Pruszynski

Sent from Front

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