Grapes go unsold

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It can make grape prices go down quite a bit for us, however, we still have to do the legwork to negotiate prices with the growers ourselves. Usually, it doesn't translate to much savings if we go through a broker. However, it does make for much more money to be made for brokers. It might also result in some better limited edition kits too.

Usually, all along the coast (I'm from Vancouver, but travel through Washington, Oregon, and Cali quite frequently), you can negotiate pretty good prices from the growers, and it should be even easier this year. In previous years it was getting harder to do so. get some friends together and get a load! Growers usually only sell by the 1/2 ton though, which is a LOT for a single maker.
 
I hope it doesn't turn into a double edged sword like the hop crisis did for the last 2-3 years. Hop growers had the same problem to an extent. Brokers were negotiating fantastic prices and we could buy hops dirt cheap. Finally the growers had enough and yanked out the bines and grew higher profit crops. Hops went from 0.50 and ounce to $3.00 an ounce almost over night if you could get many varieties at all. Now I don't see a vineyard yanking out their vines but I could see them close and in the long run significantly raise prices for a while till others get back in it and established. I personally hope everyone doesn't try to screw the grower. They need to make a living to. Those growers that just grow and don't produce wine live on a pretty slim margin.
 
Yeah, there are very few that actually grow *and* produce wine. Most cannot afford operations like that, so most of them are just regular farmers that grow grapes instead of grains, beets, or any other commercially viable crop.
 
I think it is more of a price adjustment than a market collapse for those grapes. Last year buyers were complaining grapes doubled or even tripled in one year, so if they are selling for one half to one third of last year, they are selling at their normal prices. Not bad. Some markets are selling at half of what is a traditional price. I wish I could produce and sell just premium priced anything, but they may just need to do like the rest of us and produce a good wine at a good price. The growers can always adjust their cropping level to reflect the lower price. Instead of growing 2 tons at $2500 each , produce4 tons at $1500. They will make as much or more money. Thats assuming they haven't done a final quality thinning yet. There are always ways to adjust to the market. But then, sensational stories sell...............
 
Most commodity markets don't truly reflect supply and demand. They are easily manipulated by a few big players. As the season progresses they will see where they really stand.
 
On my way back home from Appleman"s, we did stop at a winery in a town called North East, Pa. We stopped because we had seen acres and acres of grapes. Welches has a plant near there and they take most of the grapes. He told us that we were looking at 38,000 acres of grapes. Second only to Napa Valley, Ca. Unbelievebable to me to see grapes growing like we grow corn in the midwest!
 
Reading the latest newsletter andI wasreminded of this post, ironic?

"We just found out that Brehm Vineyard
will be increasing the prices of their
frozen grapes and must"...
 
it all depends on you the end user...do you buy from a broker or middleman?
or do you buy right from the grower.

Percentage wise that is where you will see savings that add up. If you are on the east coast and seeing for example that a grower has lowered his price from 20 to 10 dollars a lug (example only) then you willl not experience the 50% savings because you still have to pay for transport and a broker if that is how you purchase your grapes....those folks both have to make a living ...so maybe last year you paid 30 a lug and now the best you can hope is that it is all passed on to you and you only have to may 20 (reflecting the 10 dollar drop

only serious grape buyers are watching for a full savings....if the average sal goes into his broker and pietro the broker yells...'good news! the grapes cost 5 dollars less this year, sal is likely happy and pietro is happier
 
Well, if ya'll are interested in what's happening check out this website:


www.winebusiness.com


kinda tells what is going on - classifieds for stuff for sale - and jobs available. A couple of weeks ago I saw several 'wine shops - tasting rooms and retail wine sales stores' closing. They had lots of stuff for sale.


Went into a 'grocery warehouse' store yesterday that I heard about and WOW. They probably have 1000 wines for sale starting at $1.99 from all over the world. They post their prices and the retail prices on the shelf tag. I bought 12 bottles for a total of $43 and the sales receipt showed that I 'saved' $130. My average was $3.50/bottle.(wonder what their cost was). Kinda hard for a retail wine shop to make money with this kind of competition.


I mainly purchased wines that had a blend of cab - merlot - syrah to taste as I will be trying to make my own blends from these wines. The 'special' of the week was a $69.95/btl. cabernet for $9.99. I bought one to try but have not as of yet. I'll let you know.


Hope you all enjoy Wine Business as it is very informative - not for our level but of the industry.


Glad that I am a home wine maker -I'm having fun!!!


rrawhide
 
gee at those prices.....i can see people plowing under the vines and instead planting....oh...say...almonds
 
I am not, and you should not be, too concerned about the "poor" folks that are selling their equipment and facilities, dumping cases of wine "below" cost, or plowing under their vines, because these are primarily large corporations that over-expanded too rapidly during the boom times. Or they are amateur "vintners" that thought they could retire from professional careers and start a vineyard and winery as a "plaything" and make $100,000+ annually in profit as "gentlemen farmers" after hiring all the work done by others.

If you have tried many of these wines (I don't think anyone could be familiar with all of them, because they have come and gone so quickly), they are typically thin, unremarkable wines that are significantly "doctored" and adjusted in the lab, but with a substantial amount of effort put into labeling and marketing. These are the kind of products that gives "California wines" a bad name, because they are essentially mass-produced swill, dressed up and talked about like they are something special. What they really are, generally, is "Two-buck Chuck" (Charles Shaw) but with a $10 to $20 to $40 price tag.

This is a generalization, of course, and maybe I'm being too critical, but the snobbery of California's wineries as being superior to the rest of the U.S. has always struck me as laughably hypocritical since that is precisely how most of the Old World wineries consider California wineries - a few diamonds in the rough, but still, mostly, the rough. I'm glad our free market economy is clearing out the underperformers and over-priced garbage, because it will free up shelf space for higher quality and properly priced wines from all over the U.S. and the world.

It's a good thing that Washington is not planning a bail-out of these wineries/vineyards - we're better off without them. I don't believe there is a winemaker out there who can take sub-par grapes/juice from sub-standard land (passed over in prior times as unaccetpable), and make a quality wine out of it - low-priced cooking wine, yes, but not $15-$20/bottle merlot or zin. Better to let those grapes go unsold than to be made into something nobody wants to buy unless its marked down to the price of the bottle, label and cork.

Bart

P.S. did I mention that my degree is in economics? It's mainly the business end of "luxury" goods like fine wine that has fascinated me since I was in high school, and receessions, though painful, also offer some excellent lessons in exposing the greed and hypoocrisy of the "elites" of every industry.
Bart
 
I agree Bart, let them go down with there greed!
(should have done the same with some of the other corps. in this country as well).
who's gonna bail me out if I go under ??
 
I think that this reflects the fact that we are in a recession and the winery(s) and grape growers are finally feeling the pinch. I am in about 6-8 wine clubs from CA and in the past 6-8 weeks they have FINALLY started lowering prices. Also offering things like free shipping on purch of 6+ bottles.
 
As an individual that has some industry insight, there are a lot of causes related to winery failures, the grape glut, and price corrections.


Lets talk about wineries ( large and small), They buy grapes or grow them, process them, barrel them, and wait 12-36 months to bottle. then the get to "sell" the wine to a distributor (read 3 Tier System) and wait 90 days to get that payment. So for most of the smaller wineriesit could be 4 yrs to get a return on investment.


No believe it or not, many banks are not lending money anymore. lines of credit have dried up in the last 18 months forcing many to close as they cant cover the carrying costs without help




Many distributors ( ours included) are "Destocking" which means that instead of carrying 90 to 120 days of product on hand, many are going to 30 to 60 days. Juice is getting backed up in winery warehouse.


If they still have last vintage in barrel and the previous vintage in the case wating to go out, how many grapes are they going to buy and put where?


They refer to this as a slinky effect.


Agreed that there are lot of overrated wineries that have seen major price corrections here & abroad ( Diageo is the US's largestimporter of 1st Growth Brodeaux wines and they have walked away from the 2008 futures or en Primeur. as the costs were going to be the highest yet)


Consumers due to varrying factors have traded down. Currently accross the country there is a glass ceiling at $19.99. Sales of large format & value brands are up in sales by doubel digits. The two buck chuck (Fred Franzia) & other mass produced wines are doing great. You can go into a walmart and buy the house brand for 2.99 a bottle. ( its costs about$.75 of that just to get it to the store from the winery, add $.50 for the glass and how much is left to buy grapes?
 
This and the other related thread remind me of why I decided not to grow grapes commercially in the late 70's/early 80's. The media then also was touting the glut of grapes and they were supposedly sellingfor uneconomically justifiable prices. I was young then and listened to it all and shyed away from the idea while I was young. Had I gone the route I am now back then, I would probably have a well established good sized vineyard and winery by now.


Sometimes you just need to cautiously discount all the naysayers and go for your dreams (again I stress cautiously).


Let's not feed the sharkish frenzy of the media and destroy our wonderful wine industry!
 
Appleman,


Please dont say I am destroying the industry. Its very cyclic. Trends drive the market (sideways).


There will always be new wineries, folks following thier dreams & hopes. Other will be inventive and change the market, or become the standard for a varietal.


Look at emeging areas of the country that are not "wine" country (NC, VA,AZ, ETC)


and dont discount the cult following or the next one to emerge ( it could be Sonoma, Paso Robles, or even a Long Island winery)


Even Robert Mondavi had to fail once to get wher he did
 

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