Ground Cherry - Wow!

[FlamingoEmporium]

Looks Great Dave. I got a free package of “pineapple” ground cherry seeds with my Roselle (hibiscus) seeds. Since there appear to be maybe only 2 mangos (not 2 trees but two whole mangos) blossoming after Ian, I’m hoping to harvest enough Roselle to make a batch of zinger wine this fall or winter and the free ground cherry seeds were a pleasant surprise. I’ve got to get them started for planting when rainy season starts.

I just opened my very first bottle of wine 2 weeks ago. A light mango wine. looked similar to your ground cherry. Also a light sugar (2 pounds) and about 3 pounds of fruit recipe. Seems like the one year mark in a bottle is good for fruit wines. And more fruit is apparently not always better. I too was well pleased with the tastes from just a small batch of fruit.

looking forward to ground cherries. Probably start them when the Roselle come out of the hydroponic seed starter.

 

[winemaker81]

That might be enough tannin. To be honest, I'm still experimenting with tannin to find the good amount.

I doubt you'll find the answer. As we've agreed in the past, wine is complex and every batch is different.

For fruit wines I use powdered tannin, and IIRC, the dosage is 1/4 tsp per gallon.

 

[Huba Huba]

do sugar alcohols affect SG?

 

[Raptor99]

I did a deep dive on ground cherries and discovered they don't have any sugar! They have sugar alcohols which the yeast don't ferment

Do you have a link for me? I'd like to add that information to my "files."

Sugar alcohols are helpful because they add sweetness but don't ferment.

 

[BigDaveK]

And more fruit is apparently not always better.

I've been adding more fruit to my wines and I like the results so far. But I agree, depending on the fruit, there has to be a point where it's a waste.

I think you'll be happy with ground cherries and with your growing season you should get a bunch. They're slow to take off, be patient, they'll grow like crazy eventually. I had 4 plants last year. They eventually reached about 3 feet tall and 5 feet wide and I got about 4 lbs from each.

 

[BigDaveK]

I doubt you'll find the answer. As we've agreed in the past, wine is complex and every batch is different.

For fruit wines I use powdered tannin, and IIRC, the dosage is 1/4 tsp per gallon.

I have a lot to learn about tannin and put at least a little in everything that doesn't naturally have tannin. I have to be selective with using bananas and skins - I can taste 1 banana in a 1 gallon batch. It happened twice so I'm convinced though I still find it hard to believe.
I haven't used black tea yet. I use grape leaves in my vegetable ferments so I'm wondering. And what about oak leaves and acorns? Red and black oaks have the most tannin, white oaks the least which is why deer prefer white oak acorns.
So much to explore.

 

[BigDaveK]

do sugar alcohols affect SG?

Short answer, yes.
SG is a measure of density not sugar content so anything can affect the reading. How much is the effect? That I don't know. If you're doing a few pounds per gallon it may be minimal.

 

[BigDaveK]

Do you have a link for me? I'd like to add that information to my "files."

Sugar alcohols are helpful because they add sweetness but don't ferment.

I recently started going here for fruit information. Plug in what you want at the top and it'll give you an idea. I like that it lists vitamins and minerals because I know yeast really like some of them.

https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1926/2/
I looked everywhere and apparently I didn't save the link describing which sugar alcohols are in ground cherries. I can't believe I did that!!! I remember sorbitol and mannitol and there was at least one other. Maybe xylitol but I'm not sure.

 

[Raptor99]

@BigDaveK Thanks for the link! That is a great site. It gives the total carbs for Ground Cherries, but not the breakdown between starch and sugar.

do sugar alcohols affect SG?

Everything that is dissolved in the must affects SG. That includes whatever is in the fruit, nutrients, etc. Alcohol affects SG, which is why the FG is usually below 1.000. We assume that whatever raises the OG above 1.000 is (mostly) sugar, but everything else has an effect as well. I'm sure that sugar alcohols would affect SG, but the quantity present would probably not make a huge difference.

 

[Raptor99]

@BigDaveK I found this: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/gooseberries There is a graph of the sugar content in different stages of ripeness. Ripe cape gooseberries (aka ground cherries) have glucose, fructose, and sucrose. They have a peak Brix of 17.2.

 

[ChuckD]

@BigDaveK I found this: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/gooseberries There is a graph of the sugar content in different stages of ripeness. Ripe cape gooseberries (aka ground cherries) have glucose, fructose, and sucrose. They have a peak Brix of 17.2.

This is why we use scientific names. The Ground cherry locally known as the cape gooseberry is Physalis peruvians, while the gooseberries in the article are in the genus Ribes and related to currants.

 

[BigDaveK]

This is why we use scientific names. The Ground cherry locally known as the cape gooseberry is Physalis peruvians, while the gooseberries in the article are in the genus Ribes and related to currants.

Yes, and my Aunt Molly is P. pruinosa.

 

[BigDaveK]

That is a great site. It gives the total carbs for Ground Cherries, but not the breakdown between starch and sugar.

Plug in other fruits and vegetables. If there's measurable starch and sugar they list it. Disclaimer, I'm not saying that's the best site for information just that it's the best I've found so far.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Short answer, yes.
SG is a measure of density not sugar content so anything can affect the reading. How much is the effect? That I don't know. If you're doing a few pounds per gallon it may be minimal.

Thursday I was testing a rhubarb with xylitol, sorbitol, sucralose, erythretol, fructose and even sucrose (table sugar). Using a constant weight the density varied by .001 between them, ,,, ie error. ,,, The big difference seems to be in dry density, sucralose took a lot of volume to get the target weight, xylitol was a dense crystal.

 

[carjoe87]

Well....they're in the same family as eggplant and tomatoes but they're not tomatoes in the traditional sense. Flavor is closer to gooseberry, sweet and tart. They're in between yellow and orange when ripe.

Hello, I was gifted 5 gallons of ground cherries and have had them in the freezer. I like a sweeter version of wine. Am gonna take some out and trial a small batch. I will try the recipe listed below. Would like any wisdom you would like to share Carla

Opened my first 375ml tasting bottle of ground cherry wine and again - Wow! This is why I started making wine! Good flavor, mouth feel, everything! Started even MORE seeds. Aunt Molly germinates fast, New Hanover (first time trying) takes forever and grows slow. It DID seem to get sweeter and next time I'll cut back on the back sweetening a bit. I may even do an off dry. This is definitely one that can be played with.

There's still time. If you like country wines give ground cherries a try.

View attachment 88053

 

[Jovimaple]

Hello, I was gifted 5 gallons of ground cherries and have had them in the freezer. I like a sweeter version of wine. Am gonna take some out and trial a small batch. I will try the recipe listed below. Would like any wisdom you would like to share Carla

Welcome to WMT!

 

[BigDaveK]

@carjoe87 welcome to WMT!
Wisdom? Just another simple winemaker but I'll help any way I can. And I think you'll like the ground cherry.

You don't have to follow the recipe exactly, it's a guideline. Doing it again like that I would bump up the fruit to 4-5 lbs, acid to pH 3.5ish, sugar to whatever ABV you're shooting for.

However I learned something since then that you may find interesting. I had 16+ lbs of ground cherries in the freezer and instead of messing around with a big 5 gallon or multiple 1 gallon I made a 3 gallon batch with just ground cherries, no water. I now test all my ingredients and the SG before adding sugar was 1.060, but it didn't taste that sweet. I discovered ground cherries have sugar alcohols, not sugar, and sugar alcohols are not used by yeast. I mostly ignored the SG and calculated sugar for about 1.090. (1 lb of sugar will approximately give you .040.) After sugar my starting SG was 1.140, it finished at .992 and the alcohol isn't noticeable.

Keep in mind the hydrometer measures density and not sugar content. I suggest you take a reading before adding sugar and use it or ignore it. You're the wine maker, you're the boss.

Good luck!

 

[Rice_Guy]

Hello, I was gifted 5 gallons of ground cherries and have had them in the freezer. Carla

welcome to WMT

 

[Obbnw]

Oh, they're tomatoes! I'm like: 'I would have thought it would be red!'

At first I wondered why he ground the Cherries.... d'oh.

 

[Ohio Bob]

Inspired by @BigDaveK, I grew Aunt Molly ground cherries this year. Finally had a chance to empty the freezer and shut it down for the winter (it’s in an unheated detached garage).

Final tally... 30# ground cherry, 9# Fantastico cherry tomatoes, 7# red raspberries, 4# pears. Will pitch the 71b yeast tomorrow.