GSM Blend Substitute...?

[winemaker81]

I've always made wine by the demijohn.

How big is a demijohn? Based upon batch size, it sounds like it's 10-12 US gallons. I have a 54 liter demijohn, which is 14.25 US gallons.

If you can make a demijohn of each variety, that gives you more to work with.

I doubt home winemakers have done a direct comparison between field blending and post-aging blending, due to capacity. To compare apples-to-apples, the wines would have to be treated the same, e.g., all in barrels of the same type and approximate age (or for neutral barrels, equivalent amounts of oak adjuncts). Working with a single blended batch is much easier than dealing with 3 or 4 independent batches.

Intuition is good for those with enough experience to have developed intuition. That's one reason I started the Red Blending thread, to provide folks with starting points for their blends.

 

[Ajmassa]

How big is a demijohn? Based upon batch size, it sounds like it's 10-12 US gallons. I have a 54 liter demijohn, which is 14.25 US gallons.

x6 36lb lugs or 216lbs would give about 21gal of must. 70% yield is just about 15gal I use them too but went with 7-8lugs for more wiggle room.

And @Jbu50 I had that same thought with Petite Verdot/Sirah. . Definitely not a bad idea especially if your making 4 demijohns per season. A little goes a long way. Any lack of body from the Mourvèdre dilemma would be a non-issue.

 

[winemaker81]

x6 36lb lugs or 216lbs would give about 21gal of must. 70% yield is just about 15gal I use them too but went with 7-8lugs for more wiggle room.

You're right, my math was off.

 

[AaronSC]

If you really want something Mourvedre-like I agree that Carignan might be the best bet, perhaps with a bit of Alicante blended in for body (very small amount since a little goes a long way). That said I don't think you will be in any way replicating Mourvedre, and I don't think you really should. If you think about the classic Rhone blend, Grenache provides the elegance and bright fruit (plus it's easy to grow and produces fruit reliably in many dry and windy locations), Syrah provides the dark deep fruit, tannin and color. Mourvedre for me is magic in a blend (much like people describe PV, though it is different in almost every way). Mourvedre on its own can be a bit too much, but it essentially improves everything it's blended with -and not just Rhone grapes. That's why it's hard to say what the real contribution is -yes, it adds body, mouthfeel and depth, but (to me at least) it tends to recede while making the other grapes shine.

I usually approach blends with the idea that I'm going to make such and such a combination for historical or geographic reasons, but they rarely stay that way when I start tasting the candidates. My two favorite reds I made in 2020 were 1) Tempranillo, Barbera, Zinfandel and a tiny bit of Muscat and 2) Franc, Mourvedre and Malbec (the so-called "devil's three-way"). I definitely didn't start out thinking this would be the way to go until I tasted the combinations.

I realize this may not help too much since you are planning one wine while I just bought six different grapes and fermented them separately until blending time, but I think it's really hard to know what a new combination will taste like until you try it.

 

[Jbu60]

Alicante.

But, what exactly is this mysterious grape? It is readily available at the local distributors and very popular amongst old school. Does it really give body? Does it really work like magic like Pinot Verdot or even Mourvedre? I've dabbled with it in the past (threw a box into the mix) but never been able to note its effect.

 

[buzi]

There is another distributor in my area that has previously imported Petit Sirah. Would that be a good substitute for Petit Verdot?

While similar, I think petite sirah is much more fruity than the savory petit verdot/ mourvedre. But the PS would be a great blend with any of the GSM grapes.

 

[Winephile]

I'm wondering if this boldness chart has any use in this case. Mourvedre is very high on the boldness chart, while Merlot is classified as medium body. Carignan is even lighter, considered light to medium body. Doesn't the boldness have to "match" when looking for a substitute for Mourvedre?
View attachment 75816

For the Fall 2023 season, that chart (and a fair amount of reading) persuaded me to substitute Petite Syrah for Mourvèdre as a minor player at 1/6, with 50% Syrah, and 1/3 Grenache.

I also found very authoritative pronouncements that a Côte du Rhonè must have 50% Grenache or Grenache and Syrah must have at least 1/3 each, etc. I’d love to hear what the French AOC requires for the wine style.

Finally, we all know that yeast can contribute significantly to a flavor profile goal, I’ve used GRE for my Grenache, SYR for my Syrah, and D80 to develop my Petite Syrah substitution for Mourvèdre into line that grape’s characteristics.

I’ll let you know when I get to February’s blending table.

I'm wondering if this boldness chart has any use in this case. Mourvedre is very high on the boldness chart, while Merlot is classified as medium body. Carignan is even lighter, considered light to medium body. Doesn't the boldness have to "match" when looking for a substitute for Mourvedre?
View attachment 75816

 

[Cynewulf]

I also found very authoritative pronouncements that a Côte du Rhonè must have 50% Grenache or Grenache and Syrah must have at least 1/3 each, etc. I’d love to hear what the French AOC requires for the wine style.

That’s not exactly right. The INAO sets the rules for the appellations in France - here’s what they say for Côtes du Rhône: www.inao.gouv.fr/show_texte/834

Article 4 states that Grenache Noir, Syrah, and Mourvèdre are the primary varieties, and a minimum of 40% of the blend has to be Grenache Noir, unless the grapes come from north of Montélimar. No more than 30% can be from the secondary varieties, which are carignan noir, cinsaut noir, counoise noire, muscardin noir, camarèse noir, vaccarèse noir, picpoul noir, terret noir, grenache gris, clairette rose. You can also include up to 5% of the approved white grapes they list there.

So that means you don’t need either Syrah or Mourvèdre for Côtes du Rhône, but the primary varieties have to make up at least 70% of the blend and at least 40% has to be Grenache Noir. Of course they have a lot more rules concerning how the vines are pruned, no irrigation, minimum sugar levels, density of plantings, maximum yields per hectare, etc (not to mention where they’re grown). Then, the board can still reject your wine and require that it be destroyed if it tastes too far from the standard in their opinion. It’s why a lot of the independent French producers I follow don’t bother trying to get AOC certification and settle for ‘Vin de France’ so they can make the wine they like, though it usually means they’re not able to command as high a price.

 

[meridaen]

For me, the closest that I am familiar with would be Merlot.; light on tannin, fruity, medium body.

We have the opposite problem. I have confirmed a ton of Mourvedre grapes this year. I now have a source for Syrah (my new vineyard) and looking for Grenache.

Over here in Oz you would have no hope. Grenache is so wildly popular with drinkers that it is impossible to find it available. There was a producer here in Heathcote that making you buy 3 tonnes of Shiraz fruit if you wanted to buy a tonne of Grenache. Downy wiped out what little is in the ground.

 

[buzi]

For the Fall 2023 season, that chart (and a fair amount of reading) persuaded me to substitute Petite Syrah for Mourvèdre as a minor player at 1/6, with 50% Syrah, and 1/3 Grenache.

I also found very authoritative pronouncements that a Côte du Rhonè must have 50% Grenache or Grenache and Syrah must have at least 1/3 each, etc. I’d love to hear what the French AOC requires for the wine style.

Finally, we all know that yeast can contribute significantly to a flavor profile goal, I’ve used GRE for my Grenache, SYR for my Syrah, and D80 to develop my Petite Syrah substitution for Mourvèdre into line that grape’s characteristics.

I’ll let you know when I get to February’s blending table.

Good choice with PS. However I like RP-15 or BM4x4 for PS. Morewinemaking.com has a good yeast guide for syrah/PS. Non traditional grapes like Tannat an PV would also be interesting but are typically difficult to source out side the west coast.

 

[meridaen]

I must say that I'm insanely jealous of the range of fruit that you have access too. Over here we have whatever you are lucky enough to find, which is usually just Shiraz.

 

[Jbu60]

That’s not exactly right. The INAO sets the rules for the appellations in France - here’s what they say for Côtes du Rhône: www.inao.gouv.fr/show_texte/834

Article 4 states that Grenache Noir, Syrah, and Mourvèdre are the primary varieties, and a minimum of 40% of the blend has to be Grenache Noir, unless the grapes come from north of Montélimar. No more than 30% can be from the secondary varieties, which are carignan noir, cinsaut noir, counoise noire, muscardin noir, camarèse noir, vaccarèse noir, picpoul noir, terret noir, grenache gris, clairette rose. You can also include up to 5% of the approved white grapes they list there.

So that means you don’t need either Syrah or Mourvèdre for Côtes du Rhône, but the primary varieties have to make up at least 70% of the blend and at least 40% has to be Grenache Noir. Of course they have a lot more rules concerning how the vines are pruned, no irrigation, minimum sugar levels, density of plantings, maximum yields per hectare, etc (not to mention where they’re grown). Then, the board can still reject your wine and require that it be destroyed if it tastes too far from the standard in their opinion. It’s why a lot of the independent French producers I follow don’t bother trying to get AOC certification and settle for ‘Vin de France’ so they can make the wine they like, though it usually means they’re not able to command as high a price.

Is Alicante on the list of approved grapes?

 

[Hazelemere]

Carignan is savory like Mourvedre and also comes from the Rhone. That would be a good substitute

 

[Cynewulf]

Is Alicante on the list of approved grapes?

No. I think it was planted mostly in the Languedoc as a blending grape to give color to Aramon in the bulk wines the region was known for, though plantings have declined a lot in France since the 1980’s.