Has there ever been a poll on who makes a yeast starter, or not?

[Grape Expectations]

When looking for info about yeast starters, I always end up on beer making forums. For all my orange batches of wine, I never made a starter and it fermented well, almost every time. The only exception was when the temps stayed above 30°C, it half-stalled. With some fruits it seems a starter might be beneficial. Is it always beneficial as an extra safety precaution?

I have got some stalling cranberry and I am about to make a starter to add to try to kick start it. I just wonder what percentage of long-time winemakers make a yeast starter? Is it worth the extra time and effort? I don't mean to tweak the flavour, I just mean for making sure it does start fermenting properly.

 

[CDrew]

I make starters that are about 1 hour in the making. It is better than sprinkling the yeast on top of the must. You can increase the size of the yeast colony which makes the fermentation take off faster. Whether you can make a stalled, low pH, fermentation go is a different question!

 

[qasimbashir6242]

The decision to use a yeast starter in winemaking often depends on specific circumstances and fruit types. While many experienced winemakers find success without yeast starters, there are instances, especially with challenging fruits like cranberries, where a starter can provide added assurance for a healthy fermentation. It can help mitigate potential stalls, especially in unfavorable temperature conditions.

The choice of using a yeast starter as a safety precaution varies among winemakers. Some opt for it routinely, while others reserve it for certain situations. Ultimately, the decision should align with your goals and the specific challenges posed by the fruit or conditions. If stalling has been a concern, as in the case of cranberries, trying a yeast starter could be a valuable experiment to ensure a successful fermentation. As with any winemaking technique, the efficacy of yeast starters can be a matter of personal experience and experimentation.

 

[Grape Expectations]

Whether you can make a stalled, low pH, fermentation go is a different question!

That's the thing, it's at 2.9 pH but since the last cranberry stalled and it was at 3.4 pH, I don't think this yeast (the same stuff) is struggling due to the pH. There's just no foaming and it's gaining ABV slowly (1% per day in the initial stages when orange juice gains 3% or 4% per day). This is exactly how the last cranberry (3.4 pH) behaved, same powders all-round.

The decision to use a yeast starter in winemaking often depends on specific circumstances and fruit types. While many experienced winemakers find success without yeast starters, there are instances, especially with challenging fruits like cranberries, where a starter can provide added assurance for a healthy fermentation. It can help mitigate potential stalls, especially in unfavorable temperature conditions.

The choice of using a yeast starter as a safety precaution varies among winemakers. Some opt for it routinely, while others reserve it for certain situations. Ultimately, the decision should align with your goals and the specific challenges posed by the fruit or conditions. If stalling has been a concern, as in the case of cranberries, trying a yeast starter could be a valuable experiment to ensure a successful fermentation. As with any winemaking technique, the efficacy of yeast starters can be a matter of personal experience and experimentation.

"while others reserve it for certain situations" yes I think this is the category I fall into. Orange juice just doesn't need a starter, but it seems with cranberry it's never going to ferment properly unless a starter is used. Even then I'm not convinced it will kick start it but it's a last resort for me at this point.

 

[winemaker81]

I started making yeast starters 2 years ago, when I made my first FWK. Since then, I always make an overnight yeast starter.

As @CDrew noted, the initial colony is larger and fermentation starts quicker. Additionally, if there are other yeast and/or micro-organisms present (which is probably "always") the larger colony helps the chosen yeast dominate and stomp out any competition.

If the yeast is not alive, I know very quickly that it's not thriving, as opposed to simply sprinkling the yeast on the must, where I may not know for 72 hours.

In all batches to date I can smell fermentation within 3-6 hours of inoculation, even if there is nothing visible.

 

[vinny]

It depends on what I am doing, but I have found that if I prepare a must and let it sit for a day sometimes there are minor changes in the SG. It also gives it time to balance to ambient temps. When I make a starter I take a cup or so of must, water it down 30-50% and add my yeast. I have noticed that the fermentation is pretty well in step with just sprinkling the yeast on the must. Meaning, usually there is little activity on day one, but day 2 is when it gets exciting. With a starter there is a day 2 activity within 80-10 hours of pitching, so there is no time lost being patient.

What are you using for yeast? I like to play around to enhance the wine, but in your situation I would likely make a starter as noted above with 1118. It gently acclimates the yeast to the characteristics of the must and they are not as shocked when you pitch.

 

[Grape Expectations]

I tested the SG of the same bottle again. This is 36h since the last test and it's 97h in total:
1.088 SG (6.7% ABV)
Sugar level is 277g/L (it started at 434g/L).

This is a vast improvement, it's gained 3.6% in the last 36 hours. At this rate it would get to 14.4% in 6 days. That probably won't happen but it proves that adding another 1 tsp of nutrient to each 5L bottle has helped it.

After 61h = 3.1% ABV.
After 97h = 6.7% ABV.

That works out like this:
0.05% ABV per hour for the first 61h.
0.10% ABV per hour since then, to now.

So the rate of alcohol production doubled after adding another dose of nutrients. It now has double the nutrients that it started with, so there's a direct correlation there. I might just throw in another lot so it's tripled, but no more. I can't see it stalling much after maybe adding another dose.

Next time though, I'll double or triple the nutrients and make a starter. There was no starter done this time and maybe I should just throw one in at this point, anyway.

 

[Raptor99]

Cranberry juice nauturally contains some benzoic acid, which acts as a preservative. It has a greater effect at a lower pH. So cranberries are inherently more difficult to ferment. I always make a 3-stage starter when fermenting cranberries:
* Rehydate yeast with GoFerm
* Once it is fermenting, add an equal volume of must
* Once that is clearly fermenting, add another equal volume of must (to double the total volume)
* Once that is clearly fermenting, add it to the must.

Following this procedure, I have no difficulty getting cranberry wine to start fermenting, even at a pH around 3.2.

 

[ChuckD]

I always make a starter because why not? I also save yeast packets well beyond their expiration date and it confirms life!

I typically start the night before, using goferm and the standard procedure. For low pH must or if I think it might be a difficult ferment I’ll also add 1/2 volume of must two or three times, a few hours apart, to condition the yeast to the primary fermentation conditions. It has always resulted in a very quick start to fermentation.

 

[BigDaveK]

Another option that requires minimal planning is to use the pulp from one batch to start another.
Yesterday morning I used black raspberry pulp to start a wild blackberry/elderberry. Obvious fermentation in one hour, a cap in 3 hours. I was a little surprised at it's robustness. Seems to me you're basically feeding an active fermentation.

No starter for me. Rehydrate yeast with water and a bit o' sugar. When it foams (less than 30 minutes) I toss it in the must.

And FWIW, I've done 3 cranberry so far with no problems.

Out of curiosity, repeating @vinny's question, what yeast did you use?

 

[winemaker81]

Another option that requires minimal planning is to use the pulp from one batch to start another.

Last fall I tried an experiment -- I added the pomace from 2 batches of grape wine to 2 Merlot kits. Both batches took off immediately, which makes sense, as the pomace is loaded with live yeast.

 

[wineview]

Sometimes I make an overnight starter but I really like the Epic yeast Starter video. Been using that for a couple of years now.

 

[Grape Expectations]

Out of curiosity, repeating @vinny's question, what yeast did you use?

Young's Super Wine Yeast.

It's given me 17%-18% regularly and is half the price of EC-1118, that seems to only be available in 5g packets. Still, I think I am going to try EC-1118 next time. If I get a 10-pack (50g) it's not expensive as such, but it is still nearly double what Young's costs.

Young's includes nutrient and bentonite in the yeast apparently, in fact it's ingredients lists bentonite first, so maybe I have been using too little this whole time, although it says to use 1 tsp/gallon (UK) so that's the amount I use. Young's is in a tub, so once it's opened it's going to have a shorter use-by date than the 5g sachets of EC-1118. I suppose that's the reason it costs more, it's convenient how it's already measured out in 5g packs and that cuts out needing to use a measuring spoon - a source of potential contamination.

 

[BigDaveK]

Young's Super Wine Yeast. It's given me 17%-18% regularly and is half the price of EC-1118, that seems to only be available in 5g packets for some reason.

Well that threw me for a loop!
So you're in Manchester UK and not Manchester New Hampshire?

Only product I could find was Young's Super Wine Yeast Compound with bentonite, wine yeast, DAP, minerals and vitamins. Seems folks on the UK forums like it.
"Wine yeast" is rather vague. Maybe that particular strain isn't happy with cranberries for some reason.

 

[Grape Expectations]

Well that threw me for a loop!
So you're in Manchester UK and not Manchester New Hampshire?

Only product I could find was Young's Super Wine Yeast Compound with bentonite, wine yeast, DAP, minerals and vitamins. Seems folks on the UK forums like it.
"Wine yeast" is rather vague. Maybe that particular strain isn't happy with cranberries for some reason.

That's just it, I don't know what strain it is. Another reason to just get EC-1118 for next time I think, or just use the Young's for orange wine and the EC-1118 for cranberry. I don't want to give up trying to make cranberry wine, it's miles nicer than orange

EDIT: I put UK in my location now.