HELP! First time apple wine not fermenting AT ALL

[CAKEJUMPER]

So I mixed up a batch of apple wine last week and despite having followed the instructions to the letter no brewing has happened at all (there are some bubbles - large occasionally floating to the top when the mix is agitated) but no fermenting!

Recipe from onlines:
http://allotmentheaven.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/apple-wine-easy-recipe.html

Followed to the letter.

Any tips on how to get this going? I really don't want to have to start over as I have no idea what I'll do with the apple detreitus!!

My brewing future lies in your hands!!
Thanks!

 

[vacuumpumpman]

I always take some of the juice and start a batch in a petrie dish with a little yeast nutrient and energizer and stir and then add yeast to it. Keep in a dark place for the next 30 minutes - then you should have a nice yeast batch growing and put it in to your batch that you are trying to kick off. Make sure that your temp is above 70 degrees

 

[CAKEJUMPER]

So possibly I should have read up more before starting (but I had a lot of apples to get done with!) but the recipes I have found had no temperature requirements, nor dark.

The recipe I used didn't have yeast nutrient in it, and since googling the problem I'm starting to think the absence of this is a problem? Should I add it now? Or add more yeast (as you suggested in your post - but I'm not sure if adding more yeast might do something terrible!)?

Sorry for being a dolt.

I'm honestly in the dark on this one.

 

[Arne]

Make a starter. Use a new pkg. of yeast. In a quart container put 2 cups of warm water. Add a spoon or so of sugar and a bit of nutrient. Make sure the water is less than 105 degrees. When the yeast takes off, add a half cup of your apple must. Let it sit for a while til it ferments some, add another half cup. When it is going good dump it in. It should take off within a couple of days or so. Arne.

 

[CAKEJUMPER]

Thanks Arne, will it make a difference that I already have yeast in the mix? I don't want it to be ruined (although I can't see it being any other way at this point!).

But your advice is to approach this as if the first load of yeast was never added, and simply take more care to make sure the new yeast (plus nutrient) is activated before adding to the apple mix?

Should I use enough yeast for 5gallons as per the first time?

Apologies for the questions!

Thanks, K

 

[vacuumpumpman]

Thanks Arne, will it make a difference that I already have yeast in the mix? I don't want it to be ruined (although I can't see it being any other way at this point!).

But your advice is to approach this as if the first load of yeast was never added, and simply take more care to make sure the new yeast (plus nutrient) is activated before adding to the apple mix?

Should I use enough yeast for 5gallons as per the first time?

Apologies for the questions!

Thanks, K

You can't put too much yeast in - but on the other hand you only need 1 package to do 15 gallons if so as it multiplies fast once it has taken off

 

[Turock]

Do what Arne told you. And be sure to split the doseage of nutrient into 2 or 3 batches to pitch thruout the ferment to give the yeast the nutrients that it needs. Lack of nutrient support is responsible for many stuck or sluggish ferments.

 

[jamesngalveston]

i did not see nutrient are energizer in the recipe he posted..that is probably what it is.

 

[Arne]

Yep, just make the new starter and pitch it in. And here is the kicker if that makes it take off (and it should) you will never know whether or not it is the new starter making it go or it is the first yeast that you pitched. One or the other should make it go, tho. And when making the starter, you know the yeast you are pitching in is good. When just pitching the dry yeast in you can get a bad pkg. and it just won't start. Good luck with it, Arne.

 

[seth8530]

Yeah, sounds like a low nutrient batch considering the relatively low amount of fruit and the large amount of water that the recipe requires. Yeast nutrient might help, however something tells me this recipie needs a little bit of help.

 

[CAKEJUMPER]

Welp - made the starter, and put 1/2 cup in in yesterday morning, and another today. It was fizzing etc in the bowl I made it in (but not going crazy) but once added to the bucket it isn't fizzing or fermenting or anything.

I put 1 tsp nutrient (5 needed overall) in with the starter, and a second tsp thismorning (three more to go!) but I think this one is just not going to happen.

Last time I trust the internet.

 

[seth8530]

I would be careful about adding DAP based nutrient to a starter. I believe I have read that it is actually toxic to the yeast for some reason at that stage.. Might be something to do with the concentration or perhaps something going on in yeastie life cycle.

Also, give it some time. The yeast needs to repopulate once it gets pitched into the large batch.

 

[Turock]

I agree with Seth---I see a couple problems with this recipe, and the first one is that the apples are sitting around for a period of time and there is no mention of using meta. I think what has happened is that you got alot of biological growth going which compromises the yeast and it cannot overcome all the biological growth so you can't get a fermentation going. The only way to do it now is to sanitize the must and start over---but I don't think it's worth it. I think you should give up on this.

The recipe might work---but I'd be sure to dose the apples with meta so they won't spoil as they sit around in the vat. Also the introduction of lemons may make the ferment a little hard to start because of the lower PH. I think something like this needs some PH control before starting the ferment.

 

[jswordy]

Last time I trust the internet.

You can trust any number of apple wine recipes that have been posted on this site, as well as most of the information provided here by users. You can also trust recipes on Jack Keller's site, but I'd up the fruit considerably in all of them for more flavor.

I can't get away from the thought that you somehow introduced a preservative into the process, and added too much. I did this with an apple wine once, and wound up pouring the must out.

Since you are using apples for your juice, perhaps the apples were recently treated with a pesticide or fungicide that is harmful to yeast. Did you add any potassium metabisulfite? Could you have added too much? That's what I did.

Could you have sanitized equipment with something that left a harmful residue in the must?

You must try to think through, step by step, what went wrong, so you can learn and improve your chances next time.

 

[CAKEJUMPER]

JSWordy - thanks for your considered reply.
There are certainly no preservatives or pesticides in the mix, I thoroughly washed all of the fruit, and disinfected the bucket. The only ingredients are just apples, lemons, tea, yeast, sugar, sultanas etc. liosted in the recipe with a second batch of yeast and then nutrient.

I think I will throw it out tomorrow, and look for a recipe on this site using cooking apples to follow.

Thanks again all, for all of your advice and care!

 

[Arne]

What temp. do you have the must at?? Should be over 70 degrees at least to get it started. If too cold it can take a long time. Should as about this before saying anything else. Arne.

 

[CAKEJUMPER]

Well the saga continues!
I thought about your temperature comment, so ordered an aquarium heater to heat the mix, at the same time I removed all of the apple parts and topped up the mix with apple juice to 5 gallons because of a previous comment about the amont of water in the mix.

This was yesterday and it smells like something is brewing, but still no foaming etc. I think I just maybe went off the reservation here. Good lord, I think I might be becoming a moron.

Is it possible it's been fermenting, but secretly?

 

[Turock]

Take a hydrometer reading--it's the only way to know if fermentation is taking place. Some cultures are more quiet than others.

 

[CAKEJUMPER]

So I took a hydrometer reading (once I found a vessel tall enough for that damn thing - seriously!) at it is currently at 1.003. I think this means something is happening. I am going to stick with it til it hits 0.990-1.000 (Or I understand, takes the same reading for 3 days) and just pop it into my demijohns and hope for the best!

 

[jamesngalveston]

do you have this under an airlock, etc.