How long to leave fruit in primary fermentation?

[spicypizza]

I've read different opinions for the duration of primary fermentation; I've seen from 3-7 days , or 7-14 days , or when the sg is below 1.010. What is the benefit of leaving the fruit longer in primary fermentation? Would my wine taste more fruitier if I left it in for more than a week?

 

[Rice_Guy]

The basic rule is when it is actively outgassing it is safe.
Exceptions exist as with red grapes to extract tannins/ pigments from the skin folks do longer primarys. This leads to the question “what is your goal?” with a answer of best depends,,,,, or experience is harsh tannins start coming out IF ——.

As a fruit wine maker I try to get under air lock when it is actively out gassing at about 1.020, ,,, however I am sometimes anxious and filtered the strawberries out of the primary yesterday at 1.050, ,,,, wine is forgiving especially if you have a vacation planned or a winemaker magazine conference. The basic rule is we need to have air while the yeast cells are building an initial million cells per ml population, after a million per ml they have enough population to do the job and do not need air.

A fermentation rate temperature study
View attachment 75666

Your fermentation temperature is important and determines how fast the yeast are working, ,, how many days are needed.
A last generalization, more fruit aroma stays with lower temperature.

 

[winemaker81]

The calendar never determines when fermentation is done. Use a hydrometer to check the SG. Folks mostly rack between 1.020 and "done" (SG 0.998 or lower and stable for at least 3 days). @Rice_Guy listed an exception to this guideline (it's not a rule).

I typically rack whites and juices between 1.010 and 1.000, and reds between 1.000 and 0.998. I want a bit of activity left when I move the wine to secondary storage. Other folks ferment to done. There is no one right answer.

Some folks do Extended Maceration (EC), where they let the pulp (grape or other) rest in the wine for a period of time. A common method of this is to close the primary container before fermentation ends, and use an airlock. Durations for this range from 1 to 4 weeks. Do not open the fermenter until pressing, as the CO2 protects the wine during this phase.

With red grape, the intention of EC is to extract more color and body from the skin and pulp. For other fruits? It's going to depend on the fruit. For many, you may be better off increasing the amount of fruit per gallon of water to provide more fruit flavor.

 

[hounddawg]

as @winemaker81,,, & @Rice_Guy are both correct, and both are very versed in winemaking, and even here on WMT,, are those that go different ways, there's so many ways to suit us all. an still have a good sipping wines, as best that i can remember, due to a gangrene leg, grinding into my brain stem and to my spinal cord, i had a fair amount of wine in ferment in carboy, my nephew knew zero about wine, pear/apple,,,, blackberry,,, strawberry,, elderberry, i spent 11 months and 2 weeks in hospital. then to Memphis for a tracheostomy, then recovery another all but a year, ,, so them wines from 2 carboys of each or more,,, plus all my jugs for topping off, i have been told my wines suits these old hill billys ,, yet all still ask when am i going to make more like the ones setting 2 years on gross lees, i am tempted, yet, i still rack off my gross lees when ferment is done, now remember no grapes, yet I'm spooked at doing that on purpose,, as of now, i have several carboys coming up from 14 months (whites) and 18 to 19 months (reds),, health ain't holding up very well so when i started,, every thing was from scratch, now I'm using more single fruit concentrates...
gotta go with the flow
Dawg

 

[winemaker81]

@hounddawg's story reminds me that no matter tough things may get, others may have it tougher, and they keep on kicking!

Especially to beginners, I generally offer advice with the least risk. There is nothing more disheartening than losing a batch, and it's all too likely for beginners to walk away after an early failure. Once they get experience and start branching out? Good for them!

The obvious lesson from Richard's story is surviving illness and plugging along. However, an extension of that lesson directly related to wine is to keep trying to recover what may be a bad batch. It can always be dumped later, and sometimes the wine actually turns out good!

 

[RichardC]

Novice here: I tend to separate fruit from must a few days after primary fermentation is done, mostly because wringing the fruit inside the nylon, mesh bag, introduces O², as liquid drips back into the must, and i figure any added O² is used for yeast reproduction instead of it oxidising the wine. This usually is 7-10 days after pitching the yeast.

 

[winemaker81]

@RichardC, I doubt the O2 from the wrung fruit makes any significant difference. If the wine is fermenting in an open container, it's getting enough O2.

What SG are you wringing at?

 

[RichardC]

Thanks winemaker81. I'll try not to stress as much about O2. Usually, I don't measure final gravity till fermentation is done and wine cleared, in fact, over a year later, and I still haven't measured the final gravity of my aging pineapple wine. hahaha.

 

[winemaker81]

@RichardC, IMO it's worth recording SG at every racking. I check SG during fermentation, but don't record the interim readings as I use SG as a barometer to determine how far along fermentation is. Pressing and rackings are the ones I record.

Once I believe fermentation is complete, the SG doesn't change much, typically a point or so. Although I've had a few that dropped 3 points during the first 3 months of bulk aging, meaning the wine wasn't quite as done as I thought it was.

 

[Scooter68]

For me in most cases, as long as the fermentation is active (SG is continuing to drop at least within a 3 day period) I'll leave the fruit in. Now if it slows down and I'm going to rack it from the bucket to a carboy - Yeah then I pull the fruit or syphon off of the fruit. IF that means the SG is at 1.010 or 1.020 so be it. But it's not unusual for a fermentation to go all the way to .996 or below quickly while in the bucket. IF the fruit was properly prepared then I'll pull the fruit off. I'd rather not run the risk of some off flavors or HS2 happening.

During this time of year with temps up, my ferments run quickly and more often than not they are below 1.010 before I catch it so I'll just rack it when I find that it's finished
Now I do have 2 guidelines that I that I want the batch to me before I rack it into a carboy:
1) The SG is at or below 1.010 (Unless it stalled or totally quit and the wine will still have an ABV of at least 10%)
2)The foaming activity has virtually quit -All I see are little islands of foam on the top of the bucket.
The second one is because if there still a lot of foam then racking to carboy is just begging to see foam fountain and a big mess.

So short answer to the original question - I leave the fruit in until I rack it to a carboy