How to be sure the sugars are consumed and wine is ready to degas

[Bharat Amarnani]

Wine from Tetra pack 1 liter grape juice (with added sugars)
Yeast : bread
Initial gravity of juice : 1.060
Start date : 28/04/21
OG : 1.085 after adding additional sugar
FG : 1.025 recorded on 08/05/21 i.e after 10 days
FG : 1.20 recorded on 12/05/21
current batch of 2 weeks old (attached)
previous batch of 4 weeks old (attached)
both the batches are releasing gases

 

[Rice_Guy]

* using bread yeast it is possible that there will be sugar left, bread yeast are not tolerant to 11% alcohol. the question turns into “is this batch stable?”. Going from may eight to may twelve isn’t long and a decrease of 0.005 indicates it is still SLOWLY fermenting. Wait.

 

[winemaker81]

Normally, the FG will be between 0.990 and 0.996 when fermentation is complete.

I don't know what a Tetra pack is, other than a 1 liter juice package. Is Sorbate on the ingredient list? That is a preservative, and if present may make fermentation difficult. Sorbate is what we use to stabilize a backsweetened wine so it doesn't start fermenting again. Most commercial drinking juices contain sorbate and are not good candidates for fermentation. However, thousands of people (including me) have proven that even with most unlikely commercial juices WILL ferment, even if not all that well.

Since there are added sugars, it may be that some are not fermentable, so the wine may be done.

Just saw @Rice_Guy's response, and I fully agree. If it were me, I'd let it go another 10 days. If the SG doesn't change, it's probably done. Since it's under airlock, it's safe for a while, at least that long.

For bottling sweet wines, stabilize with Sorbate and K-meta. For 5 US gallon / 19 liter batches, the dosage is 2-1/2 tsp Sorbate (1/2 tsp per gallon for the brand I have) and 1/4 tsp K-meta. Always read the label for dosage, as some brands may be formulated differently. Do not overdo the Sorbate, or you'll get unwanted flavors.

However -- if juice contains Sorbate, I have no firm idea regarding how much Sorbate to add. Off-hand, I'd add half the normal dosage and keep an eye on the wine.

Does anyone else have better advice?

You're making small batches, which makes dosing tough. If you can, I suggest starting with 5 liters of juice so you can fill a 4 liter jug. Put the remainder in smaller bottles with a small headspace. For 4 liter batches you can use Campden tablet, 1 per 4 liters, and the appropriate amount of sorbate.

Also, do your primary fermentation in an open container with a towel over it to keep out critters. Early in the process, yeast need oxygen for reproduction, and a sealed container inhibits that. Once a wine gets down to 1.020, it can go under airlock.

I have 2, 7, and 8 US gallon food grade buckets, as well as 32 gallon Rubbermaid Brutes for primary fermentation. Whatever you use, make sure it's food grade plastic, or if another container, it's safe to contain an acidic solution (wine is very acidic).

 

[Bharat Amarnani]

I am so grateful to WMT i wish had joined a year later when the pandemic started.
i appreciate the selfless guidance you'll guys are offering

Grape juice does not seems to have potassium sorbate only added sugar (next will try and not to use it since it might have unfermentable sugars)

till now my practice is 24 hours 1 don't airlock it just cover my fermented vessel(wide mouth) with muslin cloth

And as far as this batch will wait for 10 more days and then check the FG gravity.

 

[BernardSmith]

I would seriously doubt that the juice will have added unfermentable sugars. They tend to be more expensive than sucrose or fructose.

 

[sour_grapes]

FYI, the "antioxidant" is ascorbic acid (aka Vitamin C). I think that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Bharat Amarnani]

I would seriously doubt that the juice will have added unfermentable sugars. They tend to be more expensive than sucrose or fructose.

yes i too agree with you if that's the case then after 10 days of after checking the FG would go for available juices with no preservatives and added sugars

 

[winemaker81]

@Bharat Amarnan, looking at the label, I don't see anything odd, either. While @BernardSmith is probably right, the contents are only 25% juice, so we have no guarantees what else is in there. This may depend on labeling laws in Sri Lanka, where the juice was packaged.

Keep in mind the most important point -- do YOU like the final result? If so, you might make it again with wine yeast. Since you have access to fresh fruits, make a bunch of different things to see what you like best.

I'm not selfless, I'm entertaining myself. This type of interaction is fun! While I can't speak for the others who have replied, they are all frequent posters on WMT who help others, and I expect their feelings may not be much different from mine.

 

[Michael T]

It is possible that you need yeast nutrient and yeast energizer to get a good, complete ferment.

 

[BernardSmith]

It is possible that you need yeast nutrient and yeast energizer to get a good, complete ferment.

True, but I would assume that grape juice is pretty full of the nutrients that yeast needs, unlike some other fruit and certainly honey which have none. Definitely not suggesting that even with grape juice you don't avoid adding nutrients but if the choice is nutrients OR pectic enzyme (to help make a clear and bright wine without any pectic haze) I would go for the enzymes if I am fermenting grape juice.

 

[winemaker81]

@BernardSmith, I'd agree with you IF the product was 100% grape juice. However, since it's only 25% juice, with the remainder sugar, I expect it to be deficient in nutrients.

After my encounter with H2S last fall, I'd rather be safe than sorry!

 

[BernardSmith]

GREAT catch. I missed that.

 

[Gerry Congleton]

I have been stirring my fermenting wine every day and measuring the SG. Yesterday the SG was 1.000. I took a look last night and there were still a few (very few) bubbles indicating I'm getting close to the end of fermentation and ready to rack to a carboy.
If I have been stirring consistently, do I still need to Degas?
Also, I have a gallon of Chardonnay in a gallon jug aging ( about 2 weeks). Do I need to add potassium metabisulphate and/or potassium sorbet before I bottle?

 

[winemaker81]

If I have been stirring consistently, do I still need to Degas?

The yeast is constantly producing more CO2, so no matter how much you stir during fermentation, there will be CO2 afterward. You cannot successfully degas until fermentation is completed. Degassing is typically done after the 2nd racking, which is when most of the gross lees is eliminated.

Also, I have a gallon of Chardonnay in a gallon jug aging ( about 2 weeks). Do I need to add potassium metabisulphate and/or potassium sorbet before I bottle?

Unless you are backsweetening the wine, do not add sorbate as it is unnecessary. The current practice of some kit vendors combining the K-meta and sorbate into 1 packet is irritating. Unless I'm making a dessert wine, I throw the packets out as I'll never use them. On the occasion when I do need sorbate, any packets I may have saved are old enough that I don't trust them to work.

K-meta is not strictly required. However, unless any drinker of your wine is sulfite sensitive or allergic, add K-meta at bottling. K-meta helps preserve the wine, among other things preventing or at least reducing oxidation.

 

[Rice_Guy]

OPINION; wine is a reductive (low oxygen) beverage, stirring every day is likely to introduce more oxygen which will result in loss of fresh fruity flavors, this is OK in reds but matters in white wines. I would rack a white earlier than a red to protect the flavor.
You probably have live yeast at 1.000 which are producing more CO2 and stirring two days ago didn’t substantially change the amount of dissolved gas today. You will probably have some CO2 in the wine when you bottle and it won’t really hurt the flavor. Bubbles isn’t a good test you are correct in doing gravity readings.
A two week aged wine still has live yeast. As @winemaker81 just posted,, “are you going to sweeten“ it could make a bomb, ,,, and yes I have unexpectedly opened a bottle to see it foam over, but I will try not to again!

I have been stirring my fermenting wine every day and measuring the SG. Yesterday the SG was 1.000. I took a look last night and there were still a few (very few) bubbles indicating I'm getting close to the end of fermentation and ready to rack to a carboy.
If I have been stirring consistently, do I still need to Degas?
Also, I have a gallon of Chardonnay in a gallon jug aging ( about 2 weeks). Do I need to add potassium metabisulphate and/or potassium sorbet before I bottle?

 

[Gerry Congleton]

I'm trying to get how and when to use these chemicals. Thanks for the information!

 

[Gerry Congleton]

It's a good thing you guys are around. I never thought winemaking would be so complex. Without your knowledge and experience I might be blowing up my basement.
I appreciate all the information!!

 

[winemaker81]

It's a good thing you guys are around. I never thought winemaking would be so complex. Without your knowledge and experience I might be blowing up my basement.

Actually, wine making is not that hard. Crush grapes, they'll start fermenting on their own. After 7-10 days, press. After 3 weeks, rack. After 3 months, bottle. Amazingly simple!

Making good wine consistently? Ok, that takes a bit of effort ...


Some of us have been doing this long enough that we forget how complex some of this seems to beginners.

My eldest has been making his own for over a year now. He's been helping me since he was little and I figured he had absorbed everything. Nope, he made a few minor mistakes with his first batch, as some things don't fully sink in until we're doing it on our own. That said, his first batch (kit Shiraz) came out great and I just finished a glass of his cherry cider after installing a new pressure tank. I wanted a beer and didn't realize the bottle in the cupboard was one he brought. It worked out well for me, anyway.

 

[Gerry Congleton]

I am an advocate of OJT.
Tweeking, I think, can get pretty technical.