How to fix: Too much sugar added to blackberry wine start

[Wnimens]

Hi! I am making my second 5G batch of blackberry wine. I followed the same recipe as my first batch, but I think the late season berries had a lot more sugar than the early season berries I used in my first batch. The Sp. Ga. was 1.132 and after 24 hours, I am not getting any fermentation activity. Using Red Star Premier Classique (Montrachet) yeast. So my question - is it possible to fix this without diluting with water + acid blend, or is that the route I should take? Did I kill my yeast?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[ratflinger]

You could try EC-1118 which has a higher alcohol tolerance, but even if that starts it probably won't ferment dry. I'd bet on thinning the mix, but please wait for some more replies before deciding what to do.

BTW - Welcome to the forum

 

[Raptor99]

Welcome to WMT!

SG 1.132 will produce about 19% ABV, which in my opinion is way too high for a fruit wine. Even if you can find a yeast that will ferment that much sugar, it will taste like jet fuel.

If you can get more blackberries, make a larger batch to balance out the sugar. That would be my first choice.
I see that you are in North Plains, so you are close to where I live. You might still be able to find some wild blackberries. If you can't get blackberries, you might be able to add another fruit plus some water to lower the SG while retaining a good flavor.

If you like a sweeter wine, you could let it ferment until the yeast hits the ABV limit, leaving some sugar. Your yeast maxes out at about 13% ABV, so there would be a lot of sugar left. You could use a yeast with a higher alcohol tolerance to leave less residual sugar. But such a high starting SG might make it difficult for the yeast to even start fermenting.

For future reference, I always add about half the sugar I estimate that I will need, then measure the SG to determine how much more to add. The amount of sugar in fruit can very considerably based on the degree of ripeness. All my customized recipes start with the initial ingredients, after which I measure SG and pH and adjust accordingly.

 

[Ohio Bob]

What I have done for my blackberry port recipe might be useful here. Boil 1-2 cups of light malt powder with 1-2 cups water, maybe simmer is a better choice though. This would be for a 3 gallon batch. The extra water plus the malt (actually hard to tell that the resulting wine has any malt taste) should bring down the SG.

Another option is to add cranberry juice, or cranberry-cherry, etc, just be on the lookout for sorbate protected fruit juices as the sorbate might make the must difficult to restart.

As always, or at least, highly recommended, use a yeast starter to get a robust yeast colony going before it hits the must.

 

[FlamingoEmporium]

You could add some not sweet juice instead of water.
then EC1118
hydrometer reading is better than just following a recipe when adding sugar

 

[BigDaveK]

Many good ideas for you so far!
Out of curiosity, what was the pH?
And more importantly, how much fruit did you use? If it was 6 lbs plus per gallon adding water might not affect the finished product that much. If you used 3-4 lbs like many recipes suggest I would add more water and a BOATLOAD of fruit.

 

[winemaker81]

Welcome to WMT!

That much sugar is a shock to the yeast, and it make take longer to start, since as already noted, 1.132 is jet fuel territory. Yeast may not start for 72 hours, so another day or 2 is warranted.

I agree with all previous advice -- you want to dilute this. Adding a lower sugar juice is your best bet for reducing the OG while not diluting flavor. If you don't want to alter the flavor too much, try apple juice.

As you may have figured out, recipes are often what worked and was recorded, not what's best. In the future, post recipes and ask for feedback -- there are dozens of active, experienced winemakers who will help you.

However ... DO NOT expect consensus. Ask a question of 10 winemakers, you'll get at least 11 opinions. But you'll have good advice upon which to make your decisions.

Here are posts on chaptalizing wine and making a yeast starter. Both may help you in the future.

 

[sour_grapes]

Welcome to WMT!

 

[Wnimens]

You could try EC-1118 which has a higher alcohol tolerance, but even if that starts it probably won't ferment dry. I'd bet on thinning the mix, but please wait for some more replies before deciding what to do.

BTW - Welcome to the forum

Thanks! So much great advice here. I am really looking forward to learning on this forum!

 

[Wnimens]

Welcome to WMT!

SG 1.132 will produce about 19% ABV, which in my opinion is way too high for a fruit wine. Even if you can find a yeast that will ferment that much sugar, it will taste like jet fuel.

If you can get more blackberries, make a larger batch to balance out the sugar. That would be my first choice.
I see that you are in North Plains, so you are close to where I live. You might still be able to find some wild blackberries. If you can't get blackberries, you might be able to add another fruit plus some water to lower the SG while retaining a good flavor.

If you like a sweeter wine, you could let it ferment until the yeast hits the ABV limit, leaving some sugar. Your yeast maxes out at about 13% ABV, so there would be a lot of sugar left. You could use a yeast with a higher alcohol tolerance to leave less residual sugar. But such a high starting SG might make it difficult for the yeast to even start fermenting.

For future reference, I always add about half the sugar I estimate that I will need, then measure the SG to determine how much more to add. The amount of sugar in fruit can very considerably based on the degree of ripeness. All my customized recipes start with the initial ingredients, after which I measure SG and pH and adjust accordingly.

Thanks for all of the detail! I definitely wasn't targeting jet fuel haha. The issue I ran into right away is that it never started fermenting. The berries in this batch were much more ripe than my last. So I ended up adding a gallon of water. This got me down to GS of 1.101. I also added 1.5tsp of acid blend, 1g ferment k and 1/2 tsp pectic enzyme. Do you think with the lower SG I will see fermentation start, or do you think I will need to add another packet of yeast? Also I am up to 6 gallons - do you think I need the extra yeast just for the added volume?

I am definitely going to take that advice for my next batch - adding 1/2 the sugar and testing first.

Thanks so much!

 

[Wnimens]

What I have done for my blackberry port recipe might be useful here. Boil 1-2 cups of light malt powder with 1-2 cups water, maybe simmer is a better choice though. This would be for a 3 gallon batch. The extra water plus the malt (actually hard to tell that the resulting wine has any malt taste) should bring down the SG.

Another option is to add cranberry juice, or cranberry-cherry, etc, just be on the lookout for sorbate protected fruit juices as the sorbate might make the must difficult to restart.

As always, or at least, highly recommended, use a yeast starter to get a robust yeast colony going before it hits the must.

Hi - thanks for the relpy and advice! So adding the fruit juices dilutes the sugar content without watering down the flavor?

 

[winemaker81]

Thanks! So much great advice here. I am really looking forward to learning on this forum!

EC-1118 is the workhorse yeast -- very hardy, high alcohol tolerance, etc. It's commonly included in kits as it's as foolproof as a yeast can get. The only drawback is that is doesn't impart anything special on the wine. Other strains will help with aroma, varietal character, reduce malic acid, etc. EC-1118 just works.

I suggest you thin the must down to 1.100, in which case you probably won't need EC-1118. If the Montrachet fizzles due to high alcohol, you can add a EC-1118 starter to finish the ferment.

Note -- the ABV rating of yeast is laboratory conditions. A given packet may go a bit higher, or it may quit at a bit lower ABV. In addition, at least one person has reported step feeding EC-1118 above 19%. The rating is a guideline, not a fact.

 

[Wnimens]

You could add some not sweet juice instead of water.
then EC1118
hydrometer reading is better than just following a recipe when adding sugar

Thanks for the reply! I think that is the lesson I learned with this one - use the hydrometer!

 

[ratflinger]

OP could use distillers yeast, but I wouldn't vouch for the taste of the wine.

 

[Wnimens]

Many good ideas for you so far!
Out of curiosity, what was the pH?
And more importantly, how much fruit did you use? If it was 6 lbs plus per gallon adding water might not affect the finished product that much. If you used 3-4 lbs like many recipes suggest I would add more water and a BOATLOAD of fruit.

I used wild blackberries. I pureed them as I picked, so I ended up using 19lbs puree. I think this equates to ~5lbs/gallon when you take out the seeds/cores. I haven't taken a pH measurement. Do those pH strips work for wine? What pH do you typically target for fruit wine? I was reading that adding the acid blend is a good idea when you have too much sugar. I wasn't sure how to equate pH to the amount of acid blend to add though. Sounds like you might know? Thanks!

 

[winemaker81]

Do those pH strips work for wine?

The short answer is yes, pH strips works and they're relatively inexpensive. It's what I used for many years. However, a decent pH meter will give you an accurate reading.

Wine is generally between pH 2.9 and 3.9. pH below 2.9 is not a happy environment for yeast, while pH above 3.9 is too weak and other microbial life will find it easier to grow. While there's differing opinions, white wines are generally between 3.2 and 3.5, and reds between 3.4 and 3.7.

However -- at bottling time, do not chase a number. Taste the wine -- if it tastes good, it doesn't matter what the pH is. Note that final pH below 2.9 is probably too sharp tasting, while high pH wines will be flabby, tasteless. Acid is part of the taste structure.

You are misunderstanding acid and sugar -- at bottling time acid and residual sugar balance each other, e.g., if the wine is too sweet, add acid. If the wine is too acidic, add sugar. This has nothing to do with setting up for fermentation.

In my sig is the link for the MoreWine! manuals. Download the red and white manuals, and skim the red. Don't try to read intently on the first try, it will drive you mad. Skim it a couple of times to get the overall flow of winemaking, and in later iterations to get more detail.

 

[Wnimens]

Welcome to WMT!

That much sugar is a shock to the yeast, and it make take longer to start, since as already noted, 1.132 is jet fuel territory. Yeast may not start for 72 hours, so another day or 2 is warranted.

I agree with all previous advice -- you want to dilute this. Adding a lower sugar juice is your best bet for reducing the OG while not diluting flavor. If you don't want to alter the flavor too much, try apple juice.

As you may have figured out, recipes are often what worked and was recorded, not what's best. In the future, post recipes and ask for feedback -- there are dozens of active, experienced winemakers who will help you.

However ... DO NOT expect consensus. Ask a question of 10 winemakers, you'll get at least 11 opinions. But you'll have good advice upon which to make your decisions.

Here are posts on chaptalizing wine and making a yeast starter. Both may help you in the future.

Thanks! I think I will post my recipe next time for feedback. Already all the advice on here has been wonderful. So the excess sugar just inhibits the yeast, but will not kill it? Hopefully it will start in the next day or two then! (fingers crossed)

 

[winemaker81]

Thanks! I think I will post my recipe next time for feedback. Already all the advice on here has been wonderful. So the excess sugar just inhibits the yeast, but will not kill it? Hopefully it will start in the next day or two then! (fingers crossed)

The high sugar level makes the must too rich for the yeast to eat. I suspect that is why honey preserves so well -- the sugar level is so high that microbial life can't eat it.

When you thin your must down to a more reasonable level, the fermentation will probably take off.

 

[BigDaveK]

I used wild blackberries. I pureed them as I picked, so I ended up using 19lbs puree. I think this equates to ~5lbs/gallon when you take out the seeds/cores. I haven't taken a pH measurement. Do those pH strips work for wine? What pH do you typically target for fruit wine? I was reading that adding the acid blend is a good idea when you have too much sugar. I wasn't sure how to equate pH to the amount of acid blend to add though. Sounds like you might know? Thanks!

@winemaker81 had a lot of great information for you and I'll add just a bit-

To save time and effort in the future you can freeze the fruit for a couple days. It breaks down cell walls and almost turns to mush. I use ziploc bags for quick use and vacuum seal if it's going to be a couple weeks or more.

I used kombucha pH test strips until earlier this year and it worked very good for a ballpark number. Narrower range, 0.0-6.0 I think. I sometimes use them out of curiosity for some fruit and I discovered this year that my black raspberry was the ONLY fruit (so far) that stained the strips making them useless.
And knowing the pH can be very important rather than blindly following a recipe and adding acid blend. Last year my wild blackberries were small and super tart, high acid. This year they were big and juicy and delicious.

Generally I aim for a balanced wine meaning you don't individually notice the sweetness or the acid or the alcohol. With bramble fruit I like it slightly out of balance with just a bit of tartness. It reminds me more of the fruit being used.

Have fun!

 

[David Violante]

Welcome to WMT!