How to make "stout wine" ? Or is it a total absurd ?

[Fruit]

For many years, my favorite beer was Stout (Porter).
Very dark brown, nearly black, heavy fluid, like drinking a worn diesel engine oil, eg Guiness.
And typically higher voltage (6%-9%).
Is it possible to make a "stout wine" ?
What if I grab some barley, roast it hard on steel plate or somehow and then ferment ?

 

[Rice_Guy]

Wine is a legal definition of a beverage with over 8% alcohol. Basically any time you push your starting gravity up you can make a wine. An unasked issue is stability. If your pH is above 3.5 you will have short shelf life like a beer. ie drink young like a beer. Bringing the pH down will improve shelf life like a country wine but change the flavor from a traditional stout.

 

[ratflinger]

Wow, read the title and thought 'Who'd want to make a snout wine', but then I re-read it. Whew.

 

[BigDaveK]

Most, if not all, grains can be used to make wine. I imagine various degrees of roasting will affect the flavor. I currently have a barley in bulk. I liked my last taste but I don't know if I'll explore other grains. Time will tell. And I've read they need 1-2 years before they shine.

 

[BernardSmith]

Here's the thing: grains have very large sugar molecules that yeast cannot ferment unless those sugars are rendered far more simple by the action of enzymes. Typically, brewers use the malting process (a process where the seeds (AKA grains) are encouraged to send out tiny roots which then forces the complex sugars to break down into energy sources the roots (and yeast) can use. The problem is that this makes what brewers and most other mortals call beer or lager or ale. Not wine. ABV is about 3-6%. Of course, Fruit, the OP, has I think two options. Option one, Fruit can simply take unmalted grains heated to the same temperatures as the OP suggests he likes (Stout or Porter) and uses the grains as the flavor source for the wine, but then simply ferments ON the grains but does not try to ferment the grains themselves. Option two, might be to brew a batch of stout or porter but to add enough of the extract (DME or LME) or grains to double or treble the ABV so that the potential ABV is about 12-14% (and the SG is going to be about 1.110 - 120 (with the assumption that about 15 points will be unfermentable sugars) - Fruit could simply add more , simple sugars rather than barley malt, but that would dilute the flavors and aroma of the stout.
Bottom line, it is as easy to ferment ON grains as it is to ferment on flowers (hibiscus, dandelion, lavendar etc) to make a wine. The challenge here is to make a wine that resonates with a Porter. My guess would be to basically make a "barley wine" by upping the ABV of the beer to 12-13% while keeping the flavor profile of the Porter or stout intact.

 

[winemaker81]

Wow, read the title and thought 'Who'd want to make a snout wine', but then I re-read it. Whew.

Seriously? Obviously @BigDaveK !!

 

[ratflinger]

Seriously? Obviously @BigDaveK !!

Well that does seem to be a reasonable assumption.

 

[BigDaveK]

Seriously? Obviously @BigDaveK !!

Obviously.
Of course that much protein (and fat) is an issue. Protein haze in wine can be caused by very small amounts but we'd have to create a solution the yeast could use. I think enzymes like lipase for fat and protease for proteins only get us part way there.

Then there's the flavor issue. Most meats need to be cooked and seasoned. Personally I don't care for steak tartar. But then...I haven't had too many exotic meats but goat and ostrich are very flavorful on their own.

I know lacto bacillus and various fungi are used to ferment meat for preservation. Interestingly, there are a couple lacto bacillus strains that make ethanol. Hmm...

I'm not too hopeful for wine right now. Though, some really freakin' weird fermented beverage might be possible and it would probably have the old caveat "It's an acquired taste."

Can you tell I have given this some thought?

 

[cmason1957]

Snout wine, isn't that nearly pork belly wine?

 

[Fruit]

Here's the thing: grains have very large sugar molecules that yeast cannot ferment unless those sugars are rendered far more simple by the action of enzymes. Typically, brewers use the malting process (a process where the seeds (AKA grains) are encouraged to send out tiny roots which then forces the complex sugars to break down into energy sources the roots (and yeast) can use. The problem is that this makes what brewers and most other mortals call beer or lager or ale. Not wine. ABV is about 3-6%. Of course, Fruit, the OP, has I think two options. Option one, Fruit can simply take unmalted grains heated to the same temperatures as the OP suggests he likes (Stout or Porter) and uses the grains as the flavor source for the wine, but then simply ferments ON the grains but does not try to ferment the grains themselves. Option two, might be to brew a batch of stout or porter but to add enough of the extract (DME or LME) or grains to double or treble the ABV so that the potential ABV is about 12-14% (and the SG is going to be about 1.110 - 120 (with the assumption that about 15 points will be unfermentable sugars) - Fruit could simply add more , simple sugars rather than barley malt, but that would dilute the flavors and aroma of the stout.
Bottom line, it is as easy to ferment ON grains as it is to ferment on flowers (hibiscus, dandelion, lavendar etc) to make a wine. The challenge here is to make a wine that resonates with a Porter. My guess would be to basically make a "barley wine" by upping the ABV of the beer to 12-13% while keeping the flavor profile of the Porter or stout intact.

Art and science ! It will take me days to process and understand all that-I like that vision.
"Barley wine"-that smells well and sounds good to me.
BTW: "grains have very large sugar molecules..." - perhaps that is why more and more doctors/nutritionists say humans should not eat any grains as they trigger chronic inflammation in our gut, with long list of consequences...
Lot of studying, lot of home work to be done for me.

 

[BigDaveK]

Art and science ! It will take me days to process and understand all that-I like that vision.
"Barley wine"-that smells well and sounds good to me.
BTW: "grains have very large sugar molecules..." - perhaps that is why more and more doctors/nutritionists say humans should not eat any grains as they trigger chronic inflammation in our gut, with long list of consequences...
Lot of studying, lot of home work to be done for me.

Amylase enzyme breaks down carbohydrates and we produce it in our salivary glands and pancreas. It's also used for wine making and I always add it to high starch ingredients.
This really is an interesting hobby. Enjoy the journey.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Of course that much protein (and fat) is an issue. Protein haze in wine can be caused by very small amounts but we'd have to create a solution the yeast could use. I think enzymes like lipase for fat and protease for proteins only get us part way there.

The lazy way to do a stout wine would be to create a stout (beer) mash and then add sugar to bump up the alcohol .
Protein can be removed with tannin and bentonite. Oils are harder to remove but stay confined if the particles are large, you don’t grind or pound.

All in all, a protein haze is ok in beer and pectin haze is ok in ciders. So, @Fruit if you don’t want to bother about cosmetic traits then let it stay and call it “natural”.

 

[BernardSmith]

The lazy way to do a stout wine would be to create a stout (beer) mash and then add sugar to bump up the alcohol .
Protein can be removed with tannin and bentonite. Oils are harder to remove but stay confined if the particles are large, you don’t grind or pound.

All in all, a protein haze is ok in beer and pectin haze is ok in ciders. So, @Fruit if you don’t want to bother about cosmetic traits then let it stay and call it “natural”.

Lazy, perhaps, but simply bumping up the SG with added cane or another sugar will not add anything to the flavor profile of the original wort. I would imagine that the best way to up the potential ABV is to find some way to add more of the flavoring compounds from the grains with lightly kilned to allow for alcohol production and perhaps more deeply kilned grains for flavor and color. These grains don't increase the ABV but add chocolate notes to a beer)