How to perform extended maceration?

[Dom Lausic]

LOL! Great, I'll try the back and forth motion. Will also look into a rubber stopper as well. Thx!

 

[BigSell]

I was wondering if anyone gets any off flavor from the Lees during EM? I have always read that yeast can start producing off flavors if left too long after all the sugars are fermented.

Thoughts

 

[jgmann67]

I was wondering if anyone gets any off flavor from the Lees during EM? I have always read that yeast can start producing off flavors if left too long after all the sugars are fermented.

Thoughts

The million dollar question: how long is too long? I’m going to cut mine back to 5-6 weeks to see if it makes any difference.

 

[Brian55]

I was wondering if anyone gets any off flavor from the Lees during EM? I have always read that yeast can start producing off flavors if left too long after all the sugars are fermented.

Thoughts

I usually shoot for about 4 weeks, give or take a few days. Haven't noticed any off flavors.

 

[Dom Lausic]

Very interesting question..... In the beer world (one is which I've got a little more experience in), some brewers are weary of keeping beer in primary for more than 7-10 days. Myself personally, I've had many successful batches of beer in primary for 2-3 weeks. This actually gives the beer yeast some time to clean up some of the off-flavours. I can say with a high degree of confidence that 2-3 weeks is no cause for worry. But that is personal opinion......

There are many here though, who perform EM for 6+ weeks, and have had fantastic results. I'm just finishing off a 3 week extended maceration on a wine kit (which caused some stress!), and racked today. And everything seemed ok!

 

[Boatboy24]

I'm coming up on 6 weeks for my first EM. IIRC, Vandergrift went 8 or 9.

 

[tradowsk]

Didn't notice any off flavors from my 6 week Lodi Cab EM with BM4x4.

I would think this question really depends on the yeast selection, as some yeast strains are more prone to off-flavors than others.

I also used bentonite in primary, which potentially could keep the dead yeast cells more tightly packed together and thus less likely to break down. IDK if that's a real thing, but it seems logical

 

[dyqik]

Also coming from the beer world, I know some people suggest that HDPE plastic buckets allow too much oxygen through the walls for extended aging of sour beers. But that's usually 6 months plus.

I think you'd be fine for 6-8 weeks EM, but I'd be wary of going much longer, and beer is often much more sensitive to oxygen anyway. Fermonsters, Speidels etc. are much less porous to oxygen though.

 

[Gabert Grape]

I did a 2 week EM on a Syrah made from grapes. I too did not want to leave it longer in case the pomace would add off flavors. Does anyone have experience with EM for all grape wine? is there a different process than just leaving it. Do the skins, seeds, lees, and pomace add off flavors when left longer than 2 weeks? The Syrah with a 2 week EM had no off flavors, leaving pomace and all. I do know the French have a process that removes the lees, pomace and seeds, and replaces the skins for EM. Has anyone tried this? Is oxidation an issue? Sorry for sounding like a newbie, I've now only had 2 successful vintages of all grape wine (before was kits and juice), and would like to take it up a notch.

 

[stickman]

@Gabert Grape you can check out this thread for EM with grapes.

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/extended-maceraction.58057/

 

[Gabert Grape]

Thanks for the info, I've read this thread already and it does not cover the subject thoroughly. Any other threads would be helpful.

 

[Joe B.]

I did a post fermentation 21 day EM on Grenache grapes and lost a lot of fruit but gained mouth feel and it is a overly astringent wine right now. I don't know if I should have went it longer or if Grenache is just not made out for EM. I kept it under a gas blanket, covered and punched down once a day until the cap dropped. Next year still wondering if I should go longer or just give up on EM. Which I could provide some guidance for you but just have a lot of questions at this time.

 

[SethF]

What about cold maceration, either instead or in addition?

EM makes me nervous. I have had issues with wine left on the gross lees when I first started.

Last year I did a CM for 7 days prior to PF/AF and that seems to have worked very well.

 

[sour_grapes]

I did a post fermentation 21 day EM on Grenache grapes and lost a lot of fruit but gained mouth feel and it is a overly astringent wine right now. I don't know if I should have went it longer or if Grenache is just not made out for EM. I kept it under a gas blanket, covered and punched down once a day until the cap dropped. Next year still wondering if I should go longer or just give up on EM. Which I could provide some guidance for you but just have a lot of questions at this time.

Astringency is a sign of having a lot of tannins. EM is designed to encourage the extraction of compounds from the grapeskins, including tannins.

I think Seth is suggesting cold maceration before fermentation because it is reputed to extract colors and flavors, but, without alcohol present as a solvent, is reputed not to extract as much tannins. So, no, I don't think conducting EM for longer would have helped.

 

[WellingtonToad]

What about cold maceration, either instead or in addition?

EM makes me nervous. I have had issues with wine left on the gross lees when I first started.

Last year I did a CM for 7 days prior to PF/AF and that seems to have worked very well.

The talk I hear is you either macerate before or after, not both. Basically, it comes down to the type of grape being fermented. Pinky noir before, shiraz/syrah after.

 

[SethF]

I don't think it's an either or, but agree that it is definitely a choice relating to the type of varietal.

 

[Joe B.]

Thanks for your input I'll be going in another direction next year. Possibly enzymes and cold soak.

 

[tradowsk]

I found this article to be pretty enlightening on the differences and effects of cold soaking vs. extended maceration: https://winefolly.com/review/winemakers-red-wine-secret-extended-maceration/

 

[MHSKIBUM]

I just bought a Speidel plastic fermenter to try EM. Question: do I have to worry about headspace if I go 6-8 weeks (after stabilizing)?