Joes ancient orange mead

[Arne]

Finally bottled the stuff. It mellowed out some more. Kathy took a couple of small swallows and said it is getting better. Will try and remember to bring this up when I crack one of these bottles. It definately is drinkable. Time will tell. Arne.

 

[fatbloke]

-----%<-----Think that bread yeast made the abv a little higher than most of the wines I make. Least the burn test going down says so
-----%<-----

No, actually that's a false result. Bread yeasts are designed as CO2 producers to "prove" breads while making them, whereas wine yeasts are selected for there ability to produce alcohol.

The "alcohol hot" taste (I think of it as "medicinal", whereas Ken Schramm likens it, in his book, to Listerine) can show through on meads of any strength, but yes, it does age out/mellow. It's one of the reasons that a lot of commercial meaderies will make their offerings quite sweet, with a high finished gravity, because the sugars can mask that flavour so it's drinkable/saleable earlier.

It's been "guesstimated" that JAO will be in the region of 10 to 11 % ABV (YMMV of course). Because if you did measure it at the start, you'd find that you only get the reading from the honey in water, the sugars in the fruit won't have mixed in, whereas they will have done by the time it's finished.

Meads are strange beasts, not always seeming "good" or right when young, which is why they're often aged not just for months, but years.......

Either way, well done on getting it sorted out and I hope it turns out good (as I suspect it will).

 

[Dvorak]

Started my first 1 gallon batch of JAOM this afternoon.

I forgot to take an SG reading before I added the yeast

I took one about 4-5 hours after I added the yeast (and it was already pretty active). The SG was 1.14 at that time.

Does that sound about right? Or is the active fermentation throwing things high (extra CO2 in suspension)?

Thanks!

 

[Arne]

That very well could be pretty close on your S.G. This mead finishes out sweet (the alcohol kills off the yeast before it finishes dry, so there is still sweetness left in the mead). They say the bread yeast does not make as high a alcohol as wine yeasts, so they poop out sooner. Arne.

 

[fatbloke]

That very well could be pretty close on your S.G. This mead finishes out sweet (the alcohol kills off the yeast before it finishes dry, so there is still sweetness left in the mead). They say the bread yeast does not make as high a alcohol as wine yeasts, so they poop out sooner. Arne.

Well some seem to have managed to get it down to the 1.020 to 1.030 region. Irrespective though, I suspect that's why Joes original recipe used whole oranges, so a little pithy bitterness counteracts the residual sugars making it taste less sweet than it otherwise would.......

Personally I just mix the recipe "as is" and let it do it's thing until the fruit drops. Of course, it can be a bit of a pig to rack off the fruit debris/lees, as bread yeast doesn't flocculate very well and can be brought back into suspension just my moving the fermenter. I usually move mine to where it's got to sit the day before......

 

[Ken914]

Nothing really to add... mine has been sleeping in the carboy, nestled in the garden tub with all the other carboys. I'll probably bottle in the spring.

 

[Arne]

Well some seem to have managed to get it down to the 1.020 to 1.030 region. Irrespective though, I suspect that's why Joes original recipe used whole oranges, so a little pithy bitterness counteracts the residual sugars making it taste less sweet than it otherwise would.......

Personally I just mix the recipe "as is" and let it do it's thing until the fruit drops. Of course, it can be a bit of a pig to rack off the fruit debris/lees, as bread yeast doesn't flocculate very well and can be brought back into suspension just my moving the fermenter. I usually move mine to where it's got to sit the day before......

I got mine to clear just by racking and letting it sit, then rack again. I followed the instructions on the recipe and never did take a s.g. reading. Taste buds say it has finished sweet and a little burn going down says there is alcohol in it. Life is good, Arne.

 

[DaveM]

I just finished the last bottle of the first batch of this that I ever made. *sigh* Too bad it was only a 1G batch. If I wanted to make a 3G batch, would I just triple every ingredient? Even the yeast? Any suggestions for making a 3G batch that would be different than making the 1G batch?

Thanks for your help everyone.

 

[Arne]

I believe you should be good to go by trippeling everything but the yeast. I know you would be with wine yeasts, but I mite put 2 packs of yeast in, just because they are a different yeast. It wouldn't hurt to have extra yeast, but wouldn't be good to not have enough. They should multiply and make enough either way, tho. Arne.

 

[fatbloke]

I believe you should be good to go by trippeling everything but the yeast. I know you would be with wine yeasts, but I mite put 2 packs of yeast in, just because they are a different yeast. It wouldn't hurt to have extra yeast, but wouldn't be good to not have enough. They should multiply and make enough either way, tho. Arne.

Spot on there Arne, I'd only be thinking about modifying things if I was making 10's of gallons at a time, as fermentation is an exothermic reaction and normal sized batches i.e. 1 to 5, maybe up to 10 gallons in 1 hit shouldn't be a problem, but much over that and I'd be thinking of how to keep the ferment cooled as there'd be no point if the yeast got cooked from the heat generated in a "large" batch.....

 

[DaveM]

Another question about JAOM:

The last batch I made tasted great to me. I used some solid honey from a beekeeper around where I live. Would I see a great drop in quality if I used some liquid honey from a major manufacturer of honey? (Bee-Maid, etc) It was kind of a pain last time getting the solid honey into liquid honey.

 

[mmadmikes1]

A lot of honey being sold in stores is not pure honey. I mean A LOT. Yes quality can be hurt if you get a cheap honey that is not real or one that has been cooked and pasteurized to prevent crystallizing. Being said, a great price on a good quality honey is Costco. Usually less than the fake or diluted honeys at the stores. They will mix honey with corn syrup and call it honey. sometimes as much as 50/50. If it says product of China, don't buy it

 

[fatbloke]

A lot of honey being sold in stores is not pure honey. I mean A LOT. Yes quality can be hurt if you get a cheap honey that is not real or one that has been cooked and pasteurized to prevent crystallizing. Being said, a great price on a good quality honey is Costco. Usually less than the fake or diluted honeys at the stores. They will mix honey with corn syrup and call it honey. sometimes as much as 50/50. If it says product of China, don't buy it

Concur, but then again, it's less of a problem here. The EU is mega strict with imports from outside the EU states.

I often use cheaper/blended/store bought honey for JAO as the flavour of the honey isn't the main focus taste.

As for crystalised honey being a pain, well I just scoop it out the container by weight, then it goes into a food processor with some of the water that's gonna be used in the batch and I blitz the hell out of it. Honey is hygroscopic when it's crystalised and will mix back down relatively easily. If it's one of those plastic pouring cans that contains the honey, I either just cut the top off it and scoop out, or if you're worried about not using it all at once, then you can just sit the container in a pan/sink/bowl of warm water, just changing the water when it gets cold, and repeating this until the honey has reliquified. It's not the quickest way, but is less likely to have any damaging effect on the honey, reducing aroma and the more subtle flavouring of a varietal honey......

 

[mmadmikes1]

I microwave mine. It is liquid fast

 

[fatbloke]

I microwave mine. It is liquid fast

Ah, well yes, that is another way, but it will heat the honey, which is something I try to avoid at all costs......

But hell, you go with whichever method suits you best.

Notwithstanding, some of your methods are good ideas. I personally, aren't as anal as a lot are, when it comes to how I'm making my batches, so I'm thinking I'll do a step feeding batch to see how it comes out.....

 

[mmadmikes1]

It become liquid before the temp is very high, about 75 degrees. I have just started my second batch of mead(yesterday) that I didn't heat the honey. First one I put into bulk aging Friday and it seems to be doing GREAT. Glad I listened to you no heat guys. The flavor is real nice and the mead is only 3 months old. So we learn from each other. Step feeding makes strong mead. Gets the girls pie eyed evert time

 

[fatbloke]

Great to hear that the no heat ethos is spreading........

I make about 15 gallons per year, all 1 gallon batches. Which is sort of why I've picked up a few tricks, especially like JAO as per the recipe (ok, well that's going with equivalents as closely as possible) is good, but having tried the majority of experiments people seem to try, and learning that most of them don't work well. It doesn't make for a good dry recipe.....

 

[Ken914]

Another question about JAOM:

The last batch I made tasted great to me. I used some solid honey from a beekeeper around where I live. Would I see a great drop in quality if I used some liquid honey from a major manufacturer of honey? (Bee-Maid, etc) It was kind of a pain last time getting the solid honey into liquid honey.

1. Be sure you're getting real honey (see the post above about corn syrup blends).
2. With the cinnamon & clove flavor being so strong, I don't believe my palette isn't sophisticated enough to tell the difference.
3. Remember that buying honey locally is supports small business and keeps the money in your community. I get a better deal on my blueberries if I promise the guy a couple of bottles of wine. A beekeeper might make the same kind of deal.

 

[Ken914]

I bottled mine tonight after 10 months in the carboy.

I got 12 bottles out of a 3g recipe. When I consider loss from the fruit displacement, yeast, and other lees.... I think I'm happy with that. Perhaps a better winemaker could have squeezed another bottle out.

It's certainly not an every day wine, but I enjoy it.

 

[ohbeary]

Paul, I have 4.5lb imp of honey, what do I need to do with it to make mead/melomel as I have 9 small oranges and lots of sugar?