Other Juice in various kit levels?

[Bmd2k1]

Kit makers (RJS, WinExpert, Master Vintner etc) all offer a few different levels of kits - the more expensive the kit, the more juice provided -- along with potentially more add-ons, like skins, oak etc.

My question: -- is the Juice provided at each level the same except for the quantity?


Cheers!

 

[joeswine]

Could be , one truly never knows, does one ?
On the other hand the wines structure is usually has a great deal to do with the quality of the wines finish,
Or is it truly a matter of preference and taste . That is the question or is it the answer?
Perplexing isn’t it.

 

[Rice_Guy]

A general factory statement: the more water I remove from a food, the more flavor I have also removed.
We like to remove more water since shipping/ warehouseing is cheaper and the juice has better shelf stability like a jelly or honey.

 

[joeswine]

That’s were tweaking cheap wine kits comes in

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

That’s were tweaking cheap wine kits comes in

Given that reasoning, why not buy premium kits and tweak them and have something even better?

 

[joeswine]

If you haven’t read the thread tweaking cheap wine kits you’ll find out that you can do the same thing and make a better kid even better it’s all a matter of creativity and knowing the process call leave the kit can make a difference for sure but you can take a cheap wine kit and turn it into a $12 bottle of wine and that’s a fact if you’ve never tried it then you would know would you?

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

If you haven’t read the thread tweaking cheap wine kits you’ll find out that you can do the same thing and make a better kid even better it’s all a matter of creativity and knowing the process call leave the kit can make a difference for sure but you can take a cheap wine kit and turn it into a $12 bottle of wine and that’s a fact if you’ve never tried it then you would know would you?

? Can you further clarify? My goal is not to achieve $12 quality wine, but $30-50 quality wine. So my question is, are you saying that you can take your approach and make a premium kit and get it to that level? If so, that would be my goal.

 

[Brian55]

? Can you further clarify? My goal is not to achieve $12 quality wine, but $30-50 quality wine. So my question is, are you saying that you can take your approach and make a premium kit and get it to that level? If so, that would be my goal.

Obviously prices fluctuate throughout various countries and regions, especially in recent times. So comparing wine kits to certain price points of commercial wine can be quite vague. That said, based on USA pricing from a couple years back, you could expect a well crafted kit wine to produce comparable results in the $12 to $25 range. Expecting anything more than that is setting yourself up for a let down. If it were that simple we'd all be swimming in cash from selling our wonderful $30-50 kit wines to friends, neighbors, and family. FW kits are still new to the market, but early results are very promising and they may extend that range by a bit, time will tell.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Great perspective, thanks for sharing

 

[winemaker81]

So comparing wine kits to certain price points of commercial wine can be quite vague.

I concur! Price is what the producer thinks they can get for the wine. I have a few bottles of a Beaujolais that cost $12 USD each, and this wine is far superior to a Cabernet Sauvignon that was double the price. The Winexpert Reserve (10 liter) CS I made for my son's reception was better than the commercial CS, but not as good as the Beaujolais.

As much as we want a yardstick to compare against, with wine it can be tough. Instead of price, consider wine scores from reputable entities. If the Wine Spectator or Wine Enthusiast rate a wine as 80, I expect a good table wine. If a wine is 85, it should be very good, and if a wine is 90? I expect (and get) a superior wine. Note that the scores are based upon the tastes of others, but they work as a general measure.

My target for my wines is an 85 or above, but if I get at least 80, then I'm still doing fine. If I make a 90? I'm completely overjoyed and hoarding that wine!

As @Brian55 said, keep your expectations realistic, as you're not going to compete with Chateau Petrus. Just make the best wine you can and keep striving for improvement.

 

[cmason1957]

Some other things to remember about those higher cost wines. They are picked at the absolutely best time for the wine they intend to make. Then they may be split into several vats, each with a different yeast. Mixed together at some point and always spend up to 24 months in barrels and usually several different kinds of barrels to impart slightly different things. At each step along they way multiple measurements are taken and adjusted to be exactly what the winemaker wants them to be. Finally, even if that bottle says Zinfandel, Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon, or whatever you can rest assured that it is a blend of multiple grapes, anything above 75% can be called just one varietal.

Bottom line, make the best wine you can make, using what you feel comfortable. If it comes out comparing to what you like to spend $10-15 for consider yourself lucky. If it gets much above that very, very lucky (and skillful).

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Ok so here is another question for someone to help me with….would it be fair to say if I stepped away from a premium kit (RJS EP or FWK Forte) and bought a frozen must pail from wine grapes direct, I would be able to produce an even better quality of red wine (ie maybe a $50 bottle level)? I assume being able to do an MLF on those must kits would up the quality? Thanks

 

[Brian55]

Ok so here is another question for someone to help me with….would it be fair to say if I stepped away from a premium kit (RJS EP or FWK Forte) and bought a frozen must pail from wine grapes direct, I would be able to produce an even better quality of red wine (ie maybe a $50 bottle level)? I assume being able to do an MLF on those must kits would up the quality? Thanks

No. Unfortunately the only way you're likely to create a ~$50 bottle of wine is going to work for a winery that already accomplishes that level of quality. If it was easy, everyone would already be doing it.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

No. Unfortunately the only way you're likely to create a ~$50 bottle of wine is going to work for a winery that already accomplishes that level of quality. If it was easy, everyone would already be doing it.

Lol, fair enough, but would it yield a nicer bottle of wine than the kits?

 

[cmason1957]

Lol, fair enough, but would it yield a nicer bottle of wine than the kits?

It might, it might not. All decisions are now up to you. Yeast, mlf bacteria, nutrients, oak, aging time, acid addition (or removal). Stepping up to from grapes or even juice buckets is a pretty big jump.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

It might, it might not. All decisions are now up to you. Yeast, mlf bacteria, nutrients, oak, aging time, acid addition (or removal). Stepping up to from grapes or even juice buckets is a pretty big jump.

Is MLF achievable on the new FWK kits?

I have made probably 30 kits now and I feel like Mlf is the missing ingredient.

 

[cmason1957]

Is MLF achievable on the new FWK kits?

I have made probably 30 kits now and I feel like Mlf is the missing ingredient.

That question was asked of them and they gave the answer that it would be possible, but isn't needed, probably. I think mlf is an overrated thing and doesn't provide much more than stability for many grapes. But I do it for all my red wines anyway.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

If it is achievable, that would be a game changer for the kit wine universe wouldn’t it be?

 

[winemaker81]

If it is achievable, that would be a game changer for the kit wine universe wouldn’t it be?

There's nothing stopping you from inoculating a kit with MLB. It's wine, and if there is malic acid, it will get converted to lactic. However, if you do this, DO NOT add sorbate, as it reacts badly with MLB.

In addition, the reputable vendors balance the acid in their kits. Do MLF, and it changes that balance. Of course, as someone pointed out, the "balance" of the kit is the vendor's choice and you might want a different balance.

However, I think of this as similar to cold stabilization -- a lot of folks want to cold stabilize their wines. However, if the wine doesn't have excess tartaric acid, it doesn't do anything. Some wines benefit from specific techniques. Others do not. Ask yourself what positive benefit you will achieve by using any technique.

Here's a thought -- reserve a gallon of a kit and store it elsewhere. Inoculate the remaining 5 gallons with MLB and let it run it's course. At the year mark, compare both samples to experience the differences, if any.

 

[joeswine]

When it’s all said and done it all comes down to taste what your taste is over another’s it’s all

subjective to taste ..yours