WineXpert Just ordered a bunch of kits - what can I do to tweak these kits? help!

[Brad Simmons]

I have been away from the forum (what was I thinking), so I just put in my membership - thank you all for being here - really.

Our rack holds like 600 bottles - and we are getting super low (Emergency Siren sound here). I know how this goes, so we MUST do this right -- hit it hard, make a ton at once, then we can age - or I wind up drinking it faster than I can make it.

We have made thousands of bottles - and happy, but never satisfied, what can I do to tweak these? I see @joeswine recommended Sun-Maid grapes, tannins and oak, then I see add Blackberry - what? puree? Flavoring? Wine Base? Artisan fruit Puree? I am clueless. NotANoobButANoob. hahaha

Any opinions on what to do to elevate these is GREATLY Appreciated. <3

WE Private Reserve Stag's Leap Merlot (a fave of ours)
WE Pr. Res. Lodi Ranch Cab (another fave of ours)
WE PR Amarone
WE Enigma
WE Carmenere
WE Reserve Gewurtz (a fave of ours)

 

[Dwerth]

I would take each varietal individually. What areas for each wine do you want to accentuate? Create a concept for each wine and then stick to it. I am a huge fan of oak in many instances. You could also try modifying certain kits by not adding the stabilizing packet, and have your wines go through MLF/MLC.

 

[Brad Simmons]

have your wines go through MLF/MLC.

I am not familiar with this term or process

 

[Dwerth]

I am not familiar with this term or process

Malolactic Fermentation / Malolactic Conversion. Two terms for the same thing. Kit wines (if you follow the directions verbatim) do not allow for this, because they will stabilize the wine immediately after primary fermentation.
Malolactic fermentation is done by bacteria that convert malic acid already present in the grapes to lactic acid. This can produce a softer, more rounded finished wine. This process is done commercially for most red wines, as well as in selected white wines - think Chardonnay or Viognier if produced commercially.

 

[Jim Welch]

I've made all those WE Private Reserve varieties plus others. I add nothing extra to the included instructions except a different yeast than the typical 1118 and a whole lot more aging time than indicated and they always turn out good to excellent dry red wines in my experience. Award winning wines even!
I don't even think about drinking until they are well over a year old.
As far as MLF on these kits I don't think they benefit from it at least that is the conventional wisdom here I believe, though I've not seen scientific literature proving that.

But bottom line, IMO those WE Pr. Reserve kits can make very good wine as they come!

 

[Jim Welch]

Also, if you've been away from this for a while you may not yet know of the Finer Wine Kits, a new wine kit company in the last couple years. They've been well received by many here including me. Their kits are worth considering too.

 

[Brad Simmons]

a different yeast than the typical 1118 and a whole lot more aging time than indicated and they always turn out good to excellent dry red wines in my experience. Award winning wines even!

Jim, YES - love them, but could they be better, softer, 'more better'?

That being said, have you heard of adding Blackberry to kits? If so, what? Puree, etc,

Also, what yeast do you recommend for Merlot, Carmenere, Lodi CS, Amarone?

 

[Dwerth]

Also, if you've been away from this for a while you may not yet know of the Finer Wine Kits, a new wine kit company in the last couple years. They've been well received by many here including me. Their kits are worth considering too.

I agree with the FWK idea, as I have a couple of them going right now. Both a Pinot Noir and a Peach frutta.
As to adding fruit to a wine kit, I see no issue with it. I would probably go with frozen blackberries added in primary inside a mesh bag. If you are looking for a more blackberry dominant flavor profile, adding them in secondary for a spell could work. If you go the puree route, put it in primary to limit "gunk" (and lees loss) in secondary.

 

[Gilmango]

Jim, YES - love them, but could they be better, softer, 'more better'?

Said that, have you heard of adding Blackberry to kits? If so, what? Puree, etc,

Also, what yeast do you recommend for Merlot, Carmenere, Lodi CS, Amarone?

As far as adding other fruit(s), I sometimes do that. I usually look up the varietal online, usually Wine Folly (winefolly.com), and see which fruits (or even spices) the varietal is associated with. Then you can add fresh fruit, dried fruit, or an "fpac" (which stands for fruit pack and is a term you can search here on wmt and find threads about how to make them), any of which I put in a muslin sack just like you would do with skins. Frozen fruit or a puree you made or purchased would also work, no wrong ways to do it, but the main thing is to consider the varietal and, if you decide to add fruit, add something that is complimentary / accentuates a flavor already associated with that varietal.

Sort of the same idea with picking a different yeast, instead of EC-1118. You can certainly keep it simple and add something like RC-212 or BM-4X4 to all of your wines, or you can buy yeasts which are associated with the varietal or region your grapes came from. But, if you venture away from EC-1118 you will want to also add yeast nutrient(s), and possibly even make a simple sugar & water yeast starter a day before you pitch your yeast. Basically EC-1118 is a beast which will ferment any sugars, which is why it is so common in kits, and some of the other yeasts like a little more care to shine and ferment your wines dry.

I would not try MLF with a kit wine at all.

Agree that age is the best way to make your kit wines shine.

For kits with a skin pack, some here swear by extended maceration or "EM" to add complexity and/or smoother tannins to young wines (lots of threads on that here on WMT). And if your kits don't come with skins, adding them can be a way to boost wines body and complexity, especially bigger wines.

 

[Ohio Bob]

Agree with @Gilmango that MLF for kits is not recommended as kits are tweaked by the manufacturer without MLF in mind. Also, a yeast starter is highly recommended for kits, juice buckets, or grapes.

Do some research on yeasts, Morewine.com has a pretty good yeast guide.

 

[Brad Simmons]

Thank you ALL - now I have a ton of research ahead of me! :-D I think I will try a bunch of things here - different yeast, add flavoring and take amazing notes. Thank you again.

 

[Brad Simmons]

just real quick - if I add the D47 or the RC 212 or the QA 23 (assuming adding Yeast Nutrient as well) --- but am I to put the EC1118 in AS WELL AS the D47, etc?

 

[Ohio Bob]

No. It won’t be detrimental, but some yeasts will kill other yeasts, so the final results may be unpredictable. And probably not repeatable, in case you hit upon something you like. Add the EC1118 only if the must gets stuck. EC is included in kits specifically because it powers through difficult conditions, like stuck musts.

 

[Brad Simmons]

and one more quick Q --- if I am adding some of this:

VINTNER'S BEST® BLACKBERRY FRUIT WINE BASE 128 OZ - (1 gallon makes 5.00 gallons juice at 18.6o B).

How much do I add to a 6 gallon WinExpert kit?

 

[Ohio Bob]

I would follow the instructions but instead of adding water to a line on the fermenter, or a number of gallons, measure the SG and target 1.090, a safe number for most if not all yeasts to do well.

 

[Ohio Bob]

How much do I add to a 6 gallon WinExpert kit?

Maybe I misread your question. You want to co-ferment the blackberry with the kit? I would not do it this way. You may get lucky and find a good ratio, but the odds of it being very one-sided are high, and not correctable. And your preference may vary. I would ferment each separately and then a month or two before bottling blend the two together based on your preferences. You may find the WE kit gets better with just a hint of blackberry, or you may go overboard and it drowns out the kit and becomes all blackberry.

Conversely you may like the blackberry but a little bit of the WE kit blended in makes it even better. So fermenting separately gives you the option of making two wines better than either one separately (without any blending).

 

[ratflinger]

Do not mix your yeasts, they will fight each other. Using EC1118 after another yeast is usually for restarting a stuck fermentation.

 

[Brad Simmons]

I am going in! Going to attempt to start 10-12 kits today. its raining and I am feeling god-like. :-D.

 

[Shurt1073]

Well .... can't just leave us hanging! What are the names of these kits?

I see you've made the WE Enigma & Carmenere wines and both of those interest me. Once you are finished with starting all those wine kits, later tonight sit down and tell me your thoughts on those two wines as they might be my next ferments.

Good luck today!

 

[Brad Simmons]

two Chimay Grande Reserve beers fermenting far left and back.

we are 'red' people - but with summer coming on - and all the ladies in our life loving whites, here we go:

3 - Gewurz - we LOVE that - and the new 'lesser kit' is just fine.
2 - Malbecs
2 - Adelaide Hills Sauv Blanc Private Reserves
1 - Enigma - red juice, oak dust, and a yellow F-pack --- I never saw that before...

AND - to all who helped here, I didn't use NOT EVEN ONE EC1118. I used:

RC212 for the reds
D47 and QA23 for the whites

On the multiple kits - I did one of each new yeasts - 1 kit with D47 and 1 kit with QA23. so we shall see what happens! I marked them down and can't wait.

FYI - I have a buddy who has helped me bottle --- and he is getting into it...

He wanted to see what the rest of the process was like. Even taking out time - and showing him every little step - we started 8 kits in just under 2 hrs. In case you where wondering how long it took.

Simple really.

The beer on the other hand took 5+ hrs.

And Shurt1073 asks about the Carmenere - we drink a bottle last night from 1.5 yrs ago. it was legit. a solid wine - especially for a 'lower' kit.

I see you've made the WE Enigma & Carmenere wines and both of those interest me.

Good luck today!