Kit Wine Experiment - Malolactic Fermentation (MLF) Part 1

[James Ruiz]

It seems the general consensus is that kit wine and MLF do not go well together. Either producing harsh aromas or affecting the acid balance and leaving the wine tasting terribly (flabby).

I did a lot of googling and online searching to find out whether anyone has ever successfully done MLF on a kit wine and I failed to find anything. So naturally, this is the perfect chance to have some fun and maybe settle the debate once and for all.


The experiment:

• The kit I plan on using is a 6 gal. Syrah kit from Wine Expert (or equivalent) not the highest quality stuff but maybe middle of the road.
  
  
• I'll take the entire 6 gal. through primary fermentation per the instructions and then split it in half by racking into 2 - 3 gal. carboys. One carboy will be the control wine, the remaining steps will be completed per the kit instructions. The other carboy will be the MLF wine.
  
  
• I'll have all the necessary testing supplies on hand to check acidity, SO2, etc. and adjust as needed.
  
  
• Both wines will undergo the same testing so that results can be compared.

I'll be updating periodically with photos, test results, general notes.


Now, before I start, does anyone have any suggestions or see anything I can improve? Is syrah a good varietal to use or is there another that would work better? For all you kit experts, which brand would you suggest?

Based on everyone's input, I'm going to be split the batch up prior to fermentation so that I can co-inoculate for MLF. I'm leaning toward VP-41 MLB purely based on reading about people's past success with that strain.

I ended up purchasing a Wine Expert Selection Shiraz kit. It was the lowest priced kit with the highest amount of concentrate (16L).

UPDATE 1:

So I received the kit and am currently gathering the rest of the required equipment/materials.

I gave myself a scare by reading the ingredients and thinking that list was for the grape juice concentrate. I saw the potassium sorbate and thought it was ruined.

The experiment will kick off shortly! Stay tuned.

 

[Boatboy24]

Looking forward to the results on this. I would suggest doing several chromatography tests. One when you pitch the yeast, one when pitching the MLB, one 2-3 weeks after pitching the MLB, one 4-6 weeks after MLB and maybe another a few weeks after that. I suspect I know what the results will be, but am looking forward to your trials and formal testing. If I may, I recommend detailed documentation - you may find yourself with a great article for Winemaker magazine.

 

[James Ruiz]

UPDATE 2:

Primary fermentation has begun!

As of yesterday morning, I have 2 buckets with 3 gal each undergoing primary fermentation. I want to make both batches with as much consistency as possible so that the only differing variable is the malolactic conversion on the one batch. With that in mind, my procedure for separating the batches was as follows:

1. I started by separating the bentonite and yeast packets into 2 equal portions for each ingredient, 1/2 bentonite packet and 1/2 yeast packet for each batch.
2. I then Carefully measured and separated the juice concentrate into the separate buckets.
3. Added the bentonite to each batch and topped up with water to the 3 gal mark.
4. Took a gravity reading from each sample and luckily ended up with the same gravity on the first try. 1.090 on the dot for each batch.
5. I tried to take a pH reading using test strips but the result was skewed by the wine color. I thought the strips I bought were able to be used with red wine but I guess not.
6. Took a malic acid reading using test strips and both batches showed the same result of >300mg/l.
7. Pitched the yeast, covered, and set aside to ferment.


Lessons learned:

-the pH test strips I bought were not the proper strips for red wine. I'm not sure if there are any that will work but I plan to buy a digital meter for the subsequent readings.


Moving forward:

I plan to inoculate for MLF this evening or tomorrow morning. My decision will be based on how steadily the fermentation is proceeding (when the bubbler is consistent and frequent I'll pitch the bacteria).



As always, your thoughts and input are appreciated.

-Cheers

 

[mainshipfred]

UPDATE 2:

Primary fermentation has begun!

As of yesterday morning, I have 2 buckets with 3 gal each undergoing primary fermentation. I want to make both batches with as much consistency as possible so that the only differing variable is the malolactic conversion on the one batch. With that in mind, my procedure for separating the batches was as follows:

1. I started by separating the bentonite and yeast packets into 2 equal portions for each ingredient, 1/2 bentonite packet and 1/2 yeast packet for each batch.
2. I then Carefully measured and separated the juice concentrate into the separate buckets.
3. Added the bentonite to each batch and topped up with water to the 3 gal mark.
4. Took a gravity reading from each sample and luckily ended up with the same gravity on the first try. 1.090 on the dot for each batch.
5. I tried to take a pH reading using test strips but the result was skewed by the wine color. I thought the strips I bought were able to be used with red wine but I guess not.
6. Took a malic acid reading using test strips and both batches showed the same result of >300mg/l.
7. Pitched the yeast, covered, and set aside to ferment.


Lessons learned:

-the pH test strips I bought were not the proper strips for red wine. I'm not sure if there are any that will work but I plan to buy a digital meter for the subsequent readings.


Moving forward:

I plan to inoculate for MLF this evening or tomorrow morning. My decision will be based on how steadily the fermentation is proceeding (when the bubbler is consistent and frequent I'll pitch the bacteria).



As always, your thoughts and input are appreciated.

-Cheers

Sounds like you are doing everything you can for a proper test.

 

[James Ruiz]

UPDATE 3:

It worked!

Here's a breakdown of the process since the last update:

11/25 - added LAB to the MLF batch.

11/29 - Took SG readings on both batches: Control - .996, MLF - 1.002

11/30 - Took SG readings on both batches: Control - .994, MLF - .996.

I also took malic acid readings from both batches and was pleasantly surprised to see that MLF was working: Control - >300 mg/l, MLF <75 mg/l

12/2 - Took SG readings and racked into 3 gal. carboys: Control - .996, MLF - .993.
Took malic acid readings: Control - >300 mg/l, MLF - <75 mg/l.
At this point it seemed that the malic acid conversion was complete so I proceeded with following the kit instructions: Added k-meta, added kieselsol, stirred/degassed.
The kit wanted me to add k-sorbate but I tossed that package.

12/3 - Took pH readings: Control - 3.39, MLF - 3.60
At this point we (my wife and I) tasted both batches and there is definitely a difference. The control batch was much more fruit forward and had more of an acidic bite to it. The MLF batch was slightly more bland which I guess is the flabby effect that people keep mentioning.
Even though the MLF batch pH was in an acceptable range, I went ahead and added 15g of tartaric acid to improve the taste.
Added chitosan, added 2oz. oak, stirred/degassed.


From here I plan to bulk age for about 2 months before bottling. I'll taste test the batches periodically to make sure the oak isn't too strong and give you all updates.

The attached photo is from the 12/2 malic acid test.

-Cheers


P.S. - What's the best way to add marbles to a carboy?

 

[Brian55]

UPDATE 3:



P.S. - What's the best way to add marbles to a carboy?

Give the marbles to your kids to play with, and top it up with a similar wine.

 

[mainshipfred]

UPDATE 3:

It worked!

Here's a breakdown of the process since the last update:

11/25 - added LAB to the MLF batch.

11/29 - Took SG readings on both batches: Control - .996, MLF - 1.002

11/30 - Took SG readings on both batches: Control - .994, MLF - .996.

I also took malic acid readings from both batches and was pleasantly surprised to see that MLF was working: Control - >300 mg/l, MLF <75 mg/l

12/2 - Took SG readings and racked into 3 gal. carboys: Control - .996, MLF - .993.
Took malic acid readings: Control - >300 mg/l, MLF - <75 mg/l.
At this point it seemed that the malic acid conversion was complete so I proceeded with following the kit instructions: Added k-meta, added kieselsol, stirred/degassed.
The kit wanted me to add k-sorbate but I tossed that package.

12/3 - Took pH readings: Control - 3.39, MLF - 3.60
At this point we (my wife and I) tasted both batches and there is definitely a difference. The control batch was much more fruit forward and had more of an acidic bite to it. The MLF batch was slightly more bland which I guess is the flabby effect that people keep mentioning.
Even though the MLF batch pH was in an acceptable range, I went ahead and added 15g of tartaric acid to improve the taste.
Added chitosan, added 2oz. oak, stirred/degassed.


From here I plan to bulk age for about 2 months before bottling. I'll taste test the batches periodically to make sure the oak isn't too strong and give you all updates.

The attached photo is from the 12/2 malic acid test.

-Cheers


P.S. - What's the best way to add marbles to a carboy?

Based on how thorough you were with the procedure and your notes I find it hard to have any doubts your findings are correct. The only thing I'm having trouble with is the time it took for the test to drop that much. My only conclusion would be dumping a 66 gallon dose of MLB in a 3 gallon vessel. Great job though!

 

[1d10t]

Give the marbles to your kids to play with, and top it up with a similar wine.

I think 'we' need to adopt the attitude that top up wine is just wine we will drink later.

 

[James Ruiz]

Based on how thorough you were with the procedure and your notes I find it hard to have any doubts your findings are correct. The only thing I'm having trouble with is the time it took for the test to drop that much. My only conclusion would be dumping a 66 gallon dose of MLB in a 3 gallon vessel. Great job though!

I was surprised as well. Everything I read had me expecting a 3-4 week MLF.

I actually only used about half the package because I was worried about over inoculating, if that's a thing. That's still a lot of bacteria for 3 gallons though.

 

[James Ruiz]

Give the marbles to your kids to play with, and top it up with a similar wine.

I think 'we' need to adopt the attitude that top up wine is just wine we will drink later.

So at what point is there a risk of dilution? How much volume is too much to top up with another wine?

 

[mainshipfred]

So at what point is there a risk of dilution? How much volume is too much to top up with another wine?

When I top up I almost always use a similar wine I made. So to me it's still my wine. You may not have that luxury yet but even so the amount of a commercial wine you will use for a carboy will still be a very small proportion.

 

[1d10t]

The point is to make a good wine. There are many paths. Topping up can be used as an opportunity to improve your wine. Hence my post.

 

[sour_grapes]

Furthermore, you could do a test. Next time you open one of your wines, pour two glasses. Then add ~5% of a commercial wine (so, about 1.2 tsp) to one of the glasses. Tell me if you can distinguish them.

 

[Mario Dinis]

Is there one that you recommend?

I used Weast 4007 on Merlot with success and CH-16 on Cab Sauv and Petite Syrah with Opti-Malo.

 

[James Ruiz]

Furthermore, you could do a test. Next time you open one of your wines, pour two glasses. Then add ~5% of a commercial wine (so, about 1.2 tsp) to one of the glasses. Tell me if you can distinguish them.

Good point. I doubt anyone could tell the difference with such a small amount.

 

[crushday]

@James Ruiz Good morning. It’s been several months now since you started this experiment. Do you have an update or any tasting notes? This is a cliffhanger...

 

[user 52843]

Looking forward to your results. I have completed several red wine kits that have a tart after-taste. I am wondering if MLF would help.

One currently has a PH of 3.27, so a bit on the acidic side. I am going to correct to 3.5 - 3.6 PH using a sample to see if that solves the problem.

Good luck, and again, I am looking forward to your results.

 

[cmason1957]

Looking forward to your results. I have completed several red wine kits that have a tart after-taste. I am wondering if MLF would help.

One currently has a PH of 3.27, so a bit on the acidic side. I am going to correct to 3.5 - 3.6 PH using a sample to see if that solves the problem.

Good luck, and again, I am looking forward to your results.

I wouldn't hold my breath for anyone of the folks on this thread from 2019 and 2020 to reply. Most folks believe that attempts do an mlf on a wine kit, if you can even get it to start. Will end poorly. Most wine kits balance with man-made malic acid which can't be converted.

 

[user 52843]

Does the man-made malic acid make the wine have a tart after-taste?

 

[Rice_Guy]

Does the man-made malic acid make the wine have a tart after-taste?

Yes synthetic malic will taste the same. It will come off as a sharp taste, fast on the taste buds with a quick decline. ,,, Acids have pKa values which loosely translated means there is buffering at specific pH values, with malic there is little buffering at pH 6 to 7 where a mouth normally is so the taste disappears fast.
Tartaric will give a slower response in the taste buds, it feels smoother since it misses the front impact.
Lactic is produced from MLF, it comes out with a sour longer note.
Citric is the last common acid. It is compatible with orange/ lemon/ MountainDew flavors. It hangs well in the mouth, is faster than tartaric so has lots of up front impact. Is slower than phosphoric which is used for Colas.

Your mouth is a sensor which is basically measuring the number of H+ ions, ie the TA (titratable acidity)