Lable me "frustrated"

[Hokapsig]

Background - Thanks to Julie, who introduced me to fruit wine making about 5 years ago, I make a tasty (so I am told) Cranberry Pomegranate wine. Goes great with folks that get headaches from the tannin rich grape wines as there is little tannins in this wine. It goes over so good, that now I want to sell this wine commercially.

While 70 gallons were fermenting in the winery, I then turned to getting my labels approved. Initially sending in my labels last year, I put Cranberry Pomegranate on the wine label, complied with the other label regs and submitted my label, hoping this would be a slam dunk. STOP GIGGLING!!!!!

After the obligatory 30 day review, my label was rejected and I was informed by the COLA crew that I needed to get a formula approved before a label could be considered. I protested, informing the TTB that the juice was blended prior to fermentation, thereby eliminating the need for an approved formula. Tough grapes, said the TTB. Give us a formula.

Navigating the FONL website for a newby is by no means easy by someone with my mental capacity. After appealing for assistance from a veteran winery owner (thank you Sam), I finally figured out how to enter the information and submit my formula (after 3 different starts).

After AGAIN waiting the obligatory 30 days for the formula to be approved, my formula came back REJECTED. Rejected with the reasoning that, since this is a fruit wine with preblended juice, a formula was not needed. Cue the blood pressure medication....

I then decided to call the TTB and speak to a customer service agent. After calling 3 times (twice leaving messages to call me back), I was able to speak with a semi-real person today. I explained my plight, and together we reviewed my submissions. The decision was correct - no formula is required for a preblended fruit wine (then why reject it was my question?). I was then instructed to re-submit my label, citing the formula rejection and imploring the TTB to expedite my labels, due to thier misdiagnosis of my wine.

Please note that I was strongly advised to relabel my Cranberry Pomegranate wine as "Cranberry Pomegranate Wine" so as not to confuse people which may be trying to purchase this wine. I am now going to beat my head against a wall in the basement.....

 

[olusteebus]

good lord!

 

[Boatboy24]

Gub'ment. Gotta love it...

 

[dcbrown73]

Sorry to hear about all your frustrations. I made you a wine label.

 

[bkisel]

Really, I understand your frustration...

How about you spend the first four years after HS serving your country in the USMC. You get out and the IRS hounds you and threatens you for over a year about the ~ $1,400 (if I remember correctly) they say you owe them. The $ $1,400 is actually what they owe you because of taxes being withheld from your service pay while being out of the country for over 18 months - including 8 months in Vietnam! You're at your wits end but finally get to meet with someone at the Veterans Administration to plead your case. About 6 months later a brown envelope appears in the mail with your tax refund. No sorry for the mistake, no sorry for the threats, no thanks for your service, just the refund check - to the penny.

To be sure not all my dealings with bureaucracies have been frustrating but there does seem to be a nature to the beast that oft causes frustrations when dealing with one.

 

[Floandgary]

Always, Always, ALWAYS get the name of the person you talked with AND a stupidvisors name!!!! You undoubtedly will be dialing that phone # again!

 

[Mismost]

I have to deal with lots of city code guys and other civil servants, bless their hearts!

I have found that quickest way to get rejected is to turn in a perfect set of plans. They can't find anything wrong so they spend weeks trying to find something to justify their very existence or just reject it out right. So, be sure and put in at least one BIG GLARING MISTAKE (my favorite is no fire exit doors!)...just GIVE them something to find, mark up, require you to resubmit. NOW, they have done their job! Sometimes a bit slower is a lot faster. Bless their hearts.

Oh...and your new 30 day waiting period just started over!

 

[Runningwolf]

Bill I made a mistake today or you to learn from. I realized one I sent in and was just about due for review had a mistake. I pulled it out to make the correction. Big mistake..it now put me another 30 days behind. Wait for them to catch the mistake and they recheck it within 24 hours usually or even the same day.

 

[GreginND]

Yes, Dan. Leave the mistake - let them flag it and you'll get it back very soon.

I had them reject a new label with the exact same wording of my description as my old label that was approved last year. Didn't matter.

 

[Julie]

Now Bill, seriously! IRS knows how much you bi+ch about doing your taxes so they decided to tell this to TBB

 

[Hokapsig]

Really, I understand your frustration...

How about you spend the first four years after HS serving your country in the USMC. You get out and the IRS hounds you and threatens you for over a year about the ~ $1,400 (if I remember correctly) they say you owe them. The $ $1,400 is actually what they owe you because of taxes being withheld from your service pay while being out of the country for over 18 months - including 8 months in Vietnam! You're at your wits end but finally get to meet with someone at the Veterans Administration to plead your case. About 6 months later a brown envelope appears in the mail with your tax refund. No sorry for the mistake, no sorry for the threats, no thanks for your service, just the refund check - to the penny.

To be sure not all my dealings with bureaucracies have been frustrating but there does seem to be a nature to the beast that oft causes frustrations when dealing with one.

After reading your post, I will never ever complain on line again. Thanks for your service and let me know if I can go to bat for you. I was able to write off the entire winery expenses this year and hope not to be audited, which I know I will be.

 

[bkisel]

After reading your post, I will never ever complain on line again. Thanks for your service and let me know if I can go to bat for you. I was able to write off the entire winery expenses this year and hope not to be audited, which I know I will be.

You're welcome. It was a honor to serve. [Let me add that I was not infantry. I played a support roll during my 8 months in Vietnam.]

My guess is that an innocent mistake was made in the beginning but because of the bureaucracy I was not able to get it remedied through dealing with the IRS itself. Thankfully whatever the VA guy did worked.

Also, the one other incident I had with the IRS, which was over a charitable contribution, was resolved by a single simple visit to an IRS office in New Haven, CT. So two incidents in the ~60 years I've been paying taxes.

 

[Hokapsig]

Update: after another correction, my Cranberry Pomegranate, Lemon Kiss, and Simply Red Muscadine labels were approved. Hallelueia......

 

[GreginND]

Congratulations!

I had an aronia berry wine I had to submit 4 times. They kept sending it back insisting on the AVA for the grapes to be put on the label. It took me 4 tries to convince them that aronia berries were . . . well, berries - not grapes. It took shouting at them in all caps saying THIS IS NOT A GRAPE WINE.

 

[Runningwolf]

I had them return a label twice for an AVA that we have been using for 50 years. It was a new girl and she couldn't find Lake Erie. When I called and said I wanted to talk to her supervisor she figured it out.

It gets even more interesting when you include natural ingredients and need a formula and label approval. I didn't realize there was a link on the formula page where they tell you the exact wording you need on your label until I did my last label.

 

[Hokapsig]

Noble Muscadine and Cousin Carlos Muscadine are now approved after tweeking.

 

[hounddawg]

for your sake I hope your basement wall is thick cement.. lol
Dawg::

Background - Thanks to Julie, who introduced me to fruit wine making about 5 years ago, I make a tasty (so I am told) Cranberry Pomegranate wine. Goes great with folks that get headaches from the tannin rich grape wines as there is little tannins in this wine. It goes over so good, that now I want to sell this wine commercially.

While 70 gallons were fermenting in the winery, I then turned to getting my labels approved. Initially sending in my labels last year, I put Cranberry Pomegranate on the wine label, complied with the other label regs and submitted my label, hoping this would be a slam dunk. STOP GIGGLING!!!!!

After the obligatory 30 day review, my label was rejected and I was informed by the COLA crew that I needed to get a formula approved before a label could be considered. I protested, informing the TTB that the juice was blended prior to fermentation, thereby eliminating the need for an approved formula. Tough grapes, said the TTB. Give us a formula.

Navigating the FONL website for a newby is by no means easy by someone with my mental capacity. After appealing for assistance from a veteran winery owner (thank you Sam), I finally figured out how to enter the information and submit my formula (after 3 different starts).

After AGAIN waiting the obligatory 30 days for the formula to be approved, my formula came back REJECTED. Rejected with the reasoning that, since this is a fruit wine with preblended juice, a formula was not needed. Cue the blood pressure medication....

I then decided to call the TTB and speak to a customer service agent. After calling 3 times (twice leaving messages to call me back), I was able to speak with a semi-real person today. I explained my plight, and together we reviewed my submissions. The decision was correct - no formula is required for a preblended fruit wine (then why reject it was my question?). I was then instructed to re-submit my label, citing the formula rejection and imploring the TTB to expedite my labels, due to thier misdiagnosis of my wine.

Please note that I was strongly advised to relabel my Cranberry Pomegranate wine as "Cranberry Pomegranate Wine" so as not to confuse people which may be trying to purchase this wine. I am now going to beat my head against a wall in the basement.....

 

[hounddawg]

I use to work as a construction superintend the IRS call me in new York mind you I live in Arkansas, they called the day I arrived I had no credit cards, the lady said she cold only find where I'd made only $8,800 in my whole life while on the phone with her she ran me thru 5 computer banks, IRS, FBI, DEA, CIA an I forget the last one, nope only $8800 I'd every made I was in my mid 30's at the time, now I had said nothing about my job or anything, the lady said when the job was done I was to drive well over a thousand miles to my home and send all my receipts to the IRS which I pretended to write down the address, when I got home I took every scrap of paper including Christmas and birthday cards to my back yard and had one heck of a fire, for the next 6 years on top of paying taxes I had to pay a $8,800 dollar fine for 6 years straight, that stopped me messing with the IRS,,,
Dawg::

Really, I understand your frustration...

How about you sp:nd the first four years after HS serving your country in the USMC. You get out and the IRS hounds you and threatens you for over a year about the ~ $1,400 (if I remember correctly) they say you owe them. The $ $1,400 is actually what they owe you because of taxes being withheld from your service pay while being out of the country for over 18 months - including 8 months in Vietnam! You're at your wits end but finally get to meet with someone at the Veterans Administration to plead your case. About 6 months later a brown envelope appears in the mail with your tax refund. No sorry for the mistake, no sorry for the threats, no thanks for your service, just the refund check - to the penny.

To be sure not all my dealings with bureaucracies have been frustrating but there does seem to be a nature to the beast that oft causes frustrations when dealing with one.