Looks like I wasted a small fortune on winemaking gear!

[hounddawg]

I'm about to try to make wine from fresh juice for the first time after making a dozen wine kits. My understanding is that the fresh juice naturally contains all the yeast that's needed. It speaks to the quote by Martin Luther: 'Beer is made by men, wine by God.' Left on its own, grapes and other fruit become wine. Beer has to be brewed.

in Europe they have good wild yeast, in USA not so much, so it is better with fresh fruits , concentrates and juices to k-meta 24 hours before to kill wild yeast and use a known good wine yeast, wild yeast in the USA it's a gamble between a good wine and a ruff wine, so we tend to kill any wild yeast and use our different favorite yeasts, i keep only 2 yeasts, EC-1118 & K1V-1116 but i only do country wines and no grapes,
Dawg

 

[Ajmassa]

in Europe they have good wild yeast, in USA not so much, so it is better with fresh fruits , concentrates and juices to k-meta 24 hours before to kill wild yeast and use a known good wine yeast, wild yeast in the USA it's a gamble between a good wine and a ruff wine, so we tend to kill any wild yeast and use our different favorite yeasts, i keep only 2 yeasts, EC-1118 & K1V-1116 but i only do country wines and no grapes,
Dawg

Agree here. with you and @Rice_Guy. And best option is adding your own yeast.
But it’s also not crazy crucial either. At least not with the juice buckets i get. @MHSKIBUM is right in that it will ferment on its own. Even though they don’t contain any added cultured yeast -allegedly*- for whatever reason the buckets will quickly take off like gangbusters and ferment dry on their own. Red buckets are normally balanced to 1.090 starting SG. When they began fermenting on their own i have just let them go. i did this twice. Both went under 1.000 sg

Not saying to do this- but you could theoretically simply leave the lid on tight (they have an air escape rubber valve on them) leave the bucket in the corner of the basement and completely forget about it for a year —and still end up with half decent wine. simply doing nothing.

You could also end up with trash too. lol. And this is why we do things to reduce risk and increase our odds of making better wine.

 

[sour_grapes]

I agree with @BernardSmith . I am not sure I would take winemaking advice from Martin Luther; I doubt he worked with commercial juice buckets.

 

[winemaker81]

@MHSKIBUM, another advantage of cultured wine yeasts is they are sulfite tolerant, so when you dose the must with K-meta, it will kill or stunt the wild yeasts and bacteria, but not affect the cultured yeast. In addition, a lot of cultured wine yeasts have a "killer factor" in that they kill off their competition, which helps ensure nothing else grows.

Following on from what @hounddawg said, I suspect the highly successful wineries of Europe gained their fame not only from the quality of their grapes (which depends on climate, soil, etc) and the winemaker's knowhow, but from luck of the draw. The yeast that grows in their vineyards produces more pleasing aromas and flavors than their less successful neighbors. I read an article recently that said the very wood of these old wineries is embedded with their native yeast, so pasteurized juice -- if placed in the winery -- would become inoculated with the native yeast.

I have no idea what yeast grows in the vineyards my grapes come from. Being risk adverse, I spend the $0.75 to $1.25 USD to eliminate one risk.

 

[BernardSmith]

in Europe they have good wild yeast, in USA not so much, so it is better with fresh fruits , concentrates and juices to k-meta 24 hours before to kill wild yeast and use a known good wine yeast, wild yeast in the USA it's a gamble between a good wine and a ruff wine, so we tend to kill any wild yeast and use our different favorite yeasts, i keep only 2 yeasts, EC-1118 & K1V-1116 but i only do country wines and no grapes,
Dawg

I am not sure I agree, hounddawg. There are a number of wineries in the US that aim for what is now being called "natural wines" and that means , among other things that they use only indigenous yeast to ferment their grapes, and my son at this time loves to look for such wines.

BUT the thing is that while those wine makers are happy to risk everything every harvest to produce delightful wines they fully understand and control the risks they are taking AND they KNOW that the yeasts that cover their fruit and cover their crushers and fermenters are yeasts that they are happy with. Which is to say that wild yeasts in the US are no worse and no better than the yeasts that are in Europe BUT these wine makers know precisely the risks they take and they know that some years they will have nothing to sell because the yeast they have and the fruit they or others have grown are a poor match for each other and the wine the yeast produced is not even second rate... BUT if they've been wine making for years and they have barrels of wine aging for years then one barrel from year X blended with one barrel from year Y might in fact make a wine that beats hands down a wine made in year Z.

 

[winemaker81]

Now I'm wondering if grape growers can "seed" their vineyard with a desired yeast, rather than using blind luck?

I suspect that "natural fermentation" is a good marketing strategy (assuming, of course, they get a good strain of yeast).

 

[hounddawg]

I am not sure I agree, hounddawg. There are a number of wineries in the US that aim for what is now being called "natural wines" and that means , among other things that they use only indigenous yeast to ferment their grapes, and my son at this time loves to look for such wines.

BUT the thing is that while those wine makers are happy to risk everything every harvest to produce delightful wines they fully understand and control the risks they are taking AND they KNOW that the yeasts that cover their fruit and cover their crushers and fermenters are yeasts that they are happy with. Which is to say that wild yeasts in the US are no worse and no better than the yeasts that are in Europe BUT these wine makers know precisely the risks they take and they know that some years they will have nothing to sell because the yeast they have and the fruit they or others have grown are a poor match for each other and the wine the yeast produced is not even second rate... BUT if they've been wine making for years and they have barrels of wine aging for years then one barrel from year X blended with one barrel from year Y might in fact make a wine that beats hands down a wine made in year Z.

that could be true, especially after using good yeasts for years, but in the south not so much, NOW ON YOUR (BUT IF) I say this on if's,,, if butterflies wore 45's then the birds would not mess with them, and that is what a IF is,,,,
Dawg,

 

[Scooter68]

Of course it's each person's choice to decide what source their yeast will come from. The thing I would say is that for a newbie starting out, that's a high risk proposition unless they just want to "roll the dice." Personally I would never recommend a beginner to try that unless they have money to burn and someone to coach them on how to select their grape sources to get the best odds of a successful ferment.
Yeast is not that expensive in the grand scheme of things and I'd bet that the average home wine maker would prefer to have better than 50/50 odds of a successful fermentation.

 

[sluff]

Ha! I guess we all tend to be "elitists" here. We make and drink wine for the pleasure it gives us and those with whom we share our wine but that pleasure is rather more than (or even other than) the "adolescent" buzz that some folk who "brew" alcohol seek. We make wine because we enjoy the taste and the aroma and the camaraderie that wine drinking creates, and we enjoy the creativity of taking fruit with a very short shelf life and turning it into something very different with a shelf life of years with the help of a tiny fungus.

We'll put!

 

[hounddawg]

I am not sure I agree, hounddawg. There are a number of wineries in the US that aim for what is now being called "natural wines" and that means , among other things that they use only indigenous yeast to ferment their grapes, and my son at this time loves to look for such wines.

BUT the thing is that while those wine makers are happy to risk everything every harvest to produce delightful wines they fully understand and control the risks they are taking AND they KNOW that the yeasts that cover their fruit and cover their crushers and fermenters are yeasts that they are happy with. Which is to say that wild yeasts in the US are no worse and no better than the yeasts that are in Europe BUT these wine makers know precisely the risks they take and they know that some years they will have nothing to sell because the yeast they have and the fruit they or others have grown are a poor match for each other and the wine the yeast produced is not even second rate... BUT if they've been wine making for years and they have barrels of wine aging for years then one barrel from year X blended with one barrel from year Y might in fact make a wine that beats hands down a wine made in year Z.

i should of said in Arkansas
Dawg

 

[Rex Taylor]

i should of said in Arkansas
Dawg

Synergy?

 

[hounddawg]

yep one can start with very little, and then grow into it, if interested in wine crafting
Dawg

 

[Paul Gardner]

Not everyone came to this hobby because a sainted grandpappy showed them the ropes. Lots of us had an interest and jumped in without a clue. That led to experiments, reading and even finding this website. Lots of folks will fall for the brewsey pitch and realize low grade prison toilet hooch is not really their jam. Some will leave it at that and others will come looking for more information on how to do better.

I like your comment. Today's generation AND its immediate predecessor know very little about patience. I'm 74 and just learning what it takes to make a good wine. I'm ready to bottle my first attempt that I made from my own Niagara grapes. I'll see if this old duffer has paid attention to what I've been taught.

 

[hounddawg]

I like your comment. Today's generation AND its immediate predecessor know very little about patience. I'm 74 and just learning what it takes to make a good wine. I'm ready to bottle my first attempt that I made from my own Niagara grapes. I'll see if this old duffer has paid attention to what I've been taught.

Amen
Dawg

 

[Iridal]

Luckily no ‘beginning Brewster’ will ever read it. Because once a Brewsy winemaker googles a question and reads info on a winemaking forum—— they are no longer a Brewsy winemaker, contradicting the entire brewsy mission statement.
To these people i would say- Welcome! By reading this you have surpassed the ‘just add this bag & get drunk in 5 days!” stage’ of your winemaking career.

First post here ever - this is me. I bought Brewsy. I've done 3 batches so far and I bought a bunch of extra packets. I enjoy it. However, I bought it as an easy button knowing it would take more than 5 days, but it would give me a way to get in to it as a baby step. I want to learn more! After I go through my last 6 packets I don't know I'll get more... or maybe I will get some traditional stuff and do a comparison. There are some more experienced members in the Brewsy group that do partake in the traditional process, and they seem to say there is "something" up with the formulation that makes it an interesting addition to their arsenal. But those folks aren't doing it in 5 days, they're adding a bunch of stuff.

Even for my first batch I didn't do it in 5 days, I don't think that would have been good at all.

 

[winemaker81]

@Iridal, welcome to WMT!

It's interesting that you're not making it in 5 days, and that folks in your group are making additions.

Put a bottle of each batch aside for 6 months and make a comparison. I recommend to all beginners to write down impressions at each tasting, and later compare notes.

Another idea -- purchase some 100% juice and use a normal wine yeast with the "normal" wine making process. I'd like to see your comments regarding a comparison in 6 to 9 months.

 

[Iridal]

@winemaker81 Yes! I think I'm going to make a comparison eventually. I'm kinda using Brewsy to do quicker batches, get some cause/effect experience with flavors, etc. Yeah the packets are more expensive than buying the stuff individually, but its not exactly cost prohibitive so I didn't mind. I found it mentally easier to tackle the process first, then the ingredients later.... I also didn't go in to it with any illusions that this would taste like store bought (grape) wine. Personally that was never my goal, other people do that and I enjoy what they've created haha. I wanted to make fun flavors of stuff I can't find in other places. So my expectations fit in with the Brewsy model.

I found my way to this forum because I'm trying to understand the overall process, and where Brewsy may differ. Or maybe it doesn't really differ its just accelerated. They keep it really simple but it seems extra steps are obviously needed to make it taste anywhere near good.

Edit to add - yes folks in the group are making additions and/or adjusting the process. the TL;DR on it seems to be yes it CAN ferment that fast. But if you want the actual 11 - 15% it won't be that fast. And aging is a thing you can't speed up. Even Brewsy admits that as you dig in to their stuff.

 

[sour_grapes]

Welcome to WMT, @Iridal . I appreciate hearing the thoughts and persepectives of one who got started on Brewsy.

 

[Sidewalker603]

@Paul Gardner

"I like your comment. Today's generation AND its immediate predecessor know very little about patience. I'm 74 and just learning what it takes to make a good wine. I'm ready to bottle my first attempt that I made from my own Niagara grapes. I'll see if this old duffer has paid attention to what I've been taught."

Patience is catering to Boomers at a Dunk's, in your mid thirties, for twelve dollars an hour and raising a toddler by yourself as a schizophrenic alcoholic with PTSD; lots of details in the latter, but they come organically as opposed to the rigid, authoritarian details of the Dunk's machine. It's that trial and error of the beginning; organic, playing it by ear, sometimes in uncharted waters.
I like coming at life like that, and making mead is no exception. That's why I call my yield "Ghetto Mead". All materials bought with food stamps. The guitar analogy further back is pretty close. Can I perfect my ghetto mead to taste better than Chaucer or Viking Blod? I definitely got the bug. You get better at a thing when you do it over and over again, and if you're gonna fail to produce Moonlight Meadery quality on your second try, you might as well fail with style. Can I do with mead what I did with guitar? Can I knock the socks off an entire bar with mead in a plastic spring-water jug marked "Ghetto Mead" with a sharpie? I can get a room full of drunk people singing and dancing to three chords because I tempered them into something more with practice.

Regarding Brewsy; well, they didn't sell me on the duration of fermentation, it was probably the colors, the marketing language, and some alleged Brewsy community. It sells itself as a party in a box, and I guess I'll see if it's palatable enough for a guy who lived off Steel Reserve, Natty Daddys, and MD 20/20.
The process is very much like techniques I learned from people who did time lol
I got a wine with my meads, so I guess I'll find out. I honestly thought I was going to have to ferment for six weeks until I read up on it more. Now *there's* a pretty crucial detail I missed.

A question I can't get off my mind though: what happens if I ferment the mead with Brewsy for the conventional duration?
I guess I'll see how my wine turned out the Brewsy way, and use the three airlocks for future endeavors. Mostly mead. Experiment with different yeast, honey, etc al.
Brewsy? Well it was on a good discount, so I figured I'd give it a shot, maybe learn some things that I could apply to other ingredients.
I'll be sure to give both the wine and the mead a review here. Youse all need a review from the world of people who could only afford Gallo, Kendal Jackson, Francia, and the like. The people who give a heartfelt comparison to Pabst Blue Ribbon and Narragansett. I wonder if Brewsy can do barley wine lol

 

[Adultapplejuice]

Guess it won't be long before we see and influx of brewsy users asking a million questions about why their wine tastes bad, is fizzy, drops sediment in the bottles, etc...............you know the drill!!!

Hello, I am one of the people who got a brewsy kit and just made my second batch with it. Happened to be googling some recipes and this thread came up. Personally my first batch was just apple juice and white sugar and honestly it was good. It got better with time and my only regret is that the last cup I had tasted the best by far. Next time I would leave it to sit longer. Even though it says on their websites home page it only takes 5 days, in every recipe on their app it says drastically different times depending on the recipe, and they do emphasize in all of their instructions to taste and leave it for longer until it is fully fermented, so I don't think people are under the impression it'll be absolutely ready to drink in 5 days. I wouldn't be here right now if it wasn't for brewsy making it accessible and easy to make my first home made alcoholic beverage, and I am happy with what I paid for the introduction.