Maceration Temperature

[wineview]

After looking at my notes, I noticed I usually fermented my reds on the cool side 70-72F. The batch I have going now I fermented at 82F. Just snapped the lid on the fermenter which is under an airlock and will probably leave it on the skins for a couple of weeks or so. The temperature is 82F. Should I leave it there or drop it for this next phase.

 

[winemaker81]

If fermentation is complete, I'd lower the temperature.

Yeast likes hotter temperatures, up above 100 F for many strains. Wine? Not so much.

 

[mainshipfred]

My reds naturally ferment in the 80 - 85 range and usually has 8 gallons of must in a 10 gallon brute. I'm sure the amount of must and ambient temps make a difference. Personally I don't see anything wrong with 82 unless you want a longer ferment.

 

[mainshipfred]

If fermentation is complete, I'd lower the temperature.

Yeast likes hotter temperatures, up above 100 F for many strains. Wine? Not so much.

Not to disagree but I've never seen a yeast spec that even exceeded 90 F.

 

[winemaker81]

Not to disagree but I've never seen a yeast spec that even exceeded 90 F.

Fred, you ARE disagreeing with me. But I'm perfectly ok with that.

There are 2 different temperature ranges for the yeast -- the yeast itself and the wine. I didn't realize this myself until after doing a lot of reading and then finally understanding there are 2 standards. It's not clearly spelled out in the pages I read; I had to grok the differences in wording to figure it out.

The yeast likes hotter temperature ranges, up to 108 F (from what I've read). Every strain I've read about is ok with up to 100 F, so I target 93 to 97 F for my starters. After 6 to 14 hours, the starter temperature is down to ambient temperature, which for me this time of year is 63 to 70 F.

OTOH, the high temperature is not good for wine, so keeping the temperature below 90 F is best. Making a longer term starter (12-14 hours) results in the starter being the same temperature as the must.

I have been using maceration enzymes the past 5 years and fermenting cold, so I'm getting good extraction. My 2020 wines had too much enzyme, and the bottles are stained on the inside. I'm going with mid-point in the enzyme recommendation when I made additions.

 

[wineview]

If fermentation is complete, I'd lower the temperature.

Yeast likes hotter temperatures, up above 100 F for many strains. Wine? Not so much.

is 80F not good for tannin and color extraction when the yeast have finished their job. I’ve never done this but the question occurred to me as I was snapping down.

 

[winemaker81]

is 80F not good for tannin and color extraction when the yeast have finished their job. I’ve never done this but the question occurred to me as I was snapping down.

I have no solid evidence either way, but I'm not sure how much temperature matters.

In recent years I use Scottzyme Color Pro (maceration enzyme) and fermentation oak, and aging at a relatively low temperature (< 70 F), I get amazing color, body, and depth in my wines.

I like cooler temperatures as it seems to preserve aroma. But I cannot tell you definitively that I'm right.

 

[wineview]

I may play with temperature for this batch.

 

[mainshipfred]

Fred, you ARE disagreeing with me. But I'm perfectly ok with that.

There are 2 different temperature ranges for the yeast -- the yeast itself and the wine. I didn't realize this myself until after doing a lot of reading and then finally understanding there are 2 standards. It's not clearly spelled out in the pages I read; I had to grok the differences in wording to figure it out.

The yeast likes hotter temperature ranges, up to 108 F (from what I've read). Every strain I've read about is ok with up to 100 F, so I target 93 to 97 F for my starters. After 6 to 14 hours, the starter temperature is down to ambient temperature, which for me this time of year is 63 to 70 F.

OTOH, the high temperature is not good for wine, so keeping the temperature below 90 F is best. Making a longer term starter (12-14 hours) results in the starter being the same temperature as the must.

I have been using maceration enzymes the past 5 years and fermenting cold, so I'm getting good extraction. My 2020 wines had too much enzyme, and the bottles are stained on the inside. I'm going with mid-point in the enzyme recommendation when I made additions.

So we might be on the same page, I also do my starters at a higher temp, more like around 100 though.

 

[anthocyanin]

My reds have all been fermented cool, in the low to mid 70s, mostly because I'm not fermenting large enough batches that the temperature gets more than a few degrees above ambient, and the house is usually upper 60s during fermentation season. Pinot is also the easiest red for me to get and cool fermentations definitely work great for Pinot since you really want to retain those aromatics.

 

[anthocyanin]

I should add I'm also not sure how much temperature helps with extraction, at least for color. I do use Lallzyme as well. I thought maybe I wasn't getting optimal extraction since my Pinot last year (first wine from fresh grapes) did turn out fairly light in color, but my cool-fermented Tempranillo from this year has plenty of color, so that's just how Pinot is (my Pinot this year is looking similar to last), and I'm now suspicious that any commercial Pinot that's darker than a pale-to-mid ruby has had a darker varietal blended in, even if in small amounts.

 

[winemaker81]

I should add I'm also not sure how much temperature helps with extraction, at least for color. I do use Lallzyme as well. I thought maybe I wasn't getting optimal extraction since my Pinot last year (first wine from fresh grapes) did turn out fairly light in color, but my cool-fermented Tempranillo from this year has plenty of color, so that's just how Pinot is (my Pinot this year is looking similar to last), and I'm now suspicious that any commercial Pinot that's darker than a pale-to-mid ruby has had a darker varietal blended in, even if in small amounts.

PN can be hard to get color from. Many moons ago I knew a researcher at the Geneva NY grape research station, and recall him trying various things to get color from PN.

Even if you're not getting color, you're getting body and "oomph".

 

[anthocyanin]

Even if you're not getting color, you're getting body and "oomph".

Yep. I'm surprised how much tannin my 2023 PN has considering it's a "low tannin" varietal. It definitely needs another half year+ of bottle aging before it will start to come into balance but it has a great nose so I'm excited for it to mellow out some more