Make white wine out of red grapes

[berrycrush]

It's the season for bubble and fizz. While staring at a glass of Blanc de Noirs I started wonder how a colorless wine can be made out of a red grape like Pinot Noir. Oh-yes, they say it is easy: just squeeze the juice and dump the skin. But anyone who actually made wine from grapes knows that it is not that easy to completely remove the red tint from the juice of any ripe red grapes. Some measure has to be carefully taken. Has anyone in our forum actually done that? Care to share some insight? Cheers.

 

[NorCal]

When I make a rose while doing saignee, I typically remove the juice immediately, then add juice on the skins to color the rose to my liking. Even when pulling right away, it is still has some color to it. I remember taking a picture, I’ll try to find.

 

[berrycrush]

When you press the grapes, does the pink color shows from the first drop? or does it start to get pink after some colorless juice runs off?

 

[BarrelMonkey]

I've done this with pinot noir both professionally and at home. At the winery, whole cluster grapes are loaded into the press and pressed using a gentle program, where the pressure is gradually increased stepwise over several hours up to about 1600mbar. Typical expected yields are ~150gal/ton. The first 120 gal (~80%) constitutes the Coeur, or heart of the press; since it was pressed at lower pressure, it is lighter in color than the remainder (the taille, or tail of the press). Sometimes there will also be a hard press at the end of the cycle; the juice thus yielded is the rebeche. In Champagne, it's forbidden to use this hard press in the eponymous wine and it's often distilled into spirit.

Both the coeur and taille are a bit orange/pink in color when they come out of the press. Most of this color drops out during fermentation and then further during aging, resulting in the white wine that is made into blanc de noir (and sometimes into still white pinot noir).

I made white pinot and blanc de noir in 2022. At home it's a bit harder to control pressing the grapes (I have a basket press), plus I crushed prior to loading into the press which I'm sure added some extraction from the skins. As a result my wine (both still and sparkling) has a faint blush color, though I don't think this detracts from it. I recently disgorged the first of my sparkling wines and the plug of yeast that I removed was clearly pink in color, so some further color extraction happened in secondary fermentation. If I want to make a more white wine in future I think I'll have to get better pressing technology. I do wonder if you can press whole clusters in a basket press: I imagine yields will be low and you might have to re-press, but that might reduce extraction from the skins. The wet pomace could then be re-used with more (crushed) grapes to make a red pinot noir. I think this will be my main harvest winemaking project for next year.

 

[VinesnBines]

I think Pinot Noir is the ideal red grape for white wine. You DO NOT want to use a teinturier grape like Chambourcin. This is Chambourcin out of the crusher before pressing. I didn't check but I think Marquette has some color upon crush. Like BarrelMonkey points out, whole grape press is key.

 

[Rice_Guy]

When you press the grapes, does the pink color shows from the first drop? or does it start to get pink after some colorless juice runs off?

Color is a function of skin contact time. Someone in the vinters club did a test removing skins and then fermenting. Works but his wife stopped before a gallon. ,,, For less color press quickly.

 

[berrycrush]

... As a result my wine (both still and sparkling) has a faint blush color, though I don't think this detracts from it. I recently disgorged the first of my sparkling wines and the plug of yeast that I removed was clearly pink in color, so some further color extraction happened in secondary fermentation. If I want to make a more white wine in future I think I'll have to get better pressing technology....

I am wondering if the grape need to picked a little sooner than fully ripe? I saw a video in which a Oregon wine maker picked his Pinot Noir and Chardonnay on the same day to make a field blended sparkling.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

I am wondering if the grape need to picked a little sooner than fully ripe? I saw a video in which a Oregon wine maker picked his Pinot Noir and Chardonnay on the same day to make a field blended sparkling.

For sure, grapes destined for sparkling wine need to be picked before the main harvest. 18-20 brix is typical for sparkling, whereas the same grapes for still wine will be picked at 23-25 brix.

Acidity is also a factor here - since the grapes are less ripe they will be higher in acid. pH 3.00 - 3.15 and TA 8.5-10.0g/L are common for sparkling wine.

Edit: fixed per @Ohio Bob comment below...

 

[Ohio Bob]

For sure, grapes destined for sparkling wine need to be picked before the main harvest. 18-20 brix is typical, whereas the same grapes for sparkling wine will be 23-25 brix.

That sentence needs an edit, lol.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

That sentence needs an edit, lol.

Fixed it... thanks!