Making Beautyberry (callicarpa) Wine, is it Strong enough?

[winetortoise]

I'm wondering whether this wine will be strong enough...

I filled one third of the 6 liter pot with beautyberries. I tried to use an over-the-top amount of beautyberries, because I noticed the last batch of fruit wine I made had such a high alcohol content that it made the wine taste somewhat watery at first. Also, because they have such a mild flavor, I figured that more was called-for, and I wanted some color whereas I've read that some people weren't able to retain it in theirs.

http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/son_of_dhamma/media/IMAG0613.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

I mashed and mixed them and extracted the juice, then diffused in about
5 1/2 -to- 6 pounds of sugar. The fluid water was approximately
6- liters before ingredients, that's 1.6 gallons.
(One packet 7 grams yeast)
When all was room temperature, I added the already started yeast guys into the wine must. The next day, there was a piping little cap:

http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/son_of_dhamma/media/IMAG0618.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

After plunging the cap never really foamed up again, just like with the last wine. I figured that's normal, but this wine doesn't bubble up as much as the previous wine had done. Here is the previous blueberry with strawberry-apple wine:

http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/son_of_dhamma/media/IMAG0540.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4

Yet this is the second and third day's bubbling of the beautyberry batch:

http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/son_of_dhamma/media/IMAG0620.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

This beautyberry wine has twice the amount of water, but I used one packet of the same (Flieshcmann's) yeast for both. I'm wondering if the reason that there is less bubbling could be that there is half the relative amount of yeast than before, or perhaps that I have not used enough sugar to make a strong wine. The last wine was very strong, overwhelming the flavor and having a hot aroma. I like that a lot and so I'm concerned that this wine might not have the sugars it needs to become strong like the previous wine had.

I'm thinking that more sugar would be enough to remedy that, but perhaps the lower amount of bubbling is to be expected in a mild, less acidic fruit?--as opposed to the blueberries, strawberries and an apple. Perhaps I am worried for nothing. I may add some more simple-sugar if necessary a little later to ensure higher alcohol.

 

[wineforfun]

What was the initial SG reading? This will determine what your potential alcohol is. Also, it is just a big guessing game on "how much sugar" without this reading.
Why are you using bread yeast instead of wine yeast? This will a. not bring out the fruit flavors in those berries and b. limit your potential alcohol.

 

[winetortoise]

What was the initial SG reading? This will determine what your potential alcohol is. Also, it is just a big guessing game on "how much sugar" without this reading.
Why are you using bread yeast instead of wine yeast? This will a. not bring out the fruit flavors in those berries and b. limit your potential alcohol.

Unfortunately I don't have any of the equipment for any readings, so it has been a guessing game on "how much sugar" I really want with these wines. However, the last wine seemed to use up all the sugar and had a hot kick to it as well. Regarding this beautyberry wine, I would not be bothered at all if it ended up a little sweet, as I'm not expecting a concert of flavors when there is merely the mild beautyberry and some bread yeast involved. However I would like a similar high-alcohol outcome as before.

I didn't necessarily want to use bread yeast, but this is just what I had to work with. After I used this yeast with the previous wine, there was obvious blueberry flavor and the strawberry came through a little, so I know that it will at least allow the flavor (I used a great amount of berries)--also importantly, the alcohol content is mighty satisfying. Noticeably stronger than a 13% wine. If it will go as high as it went a few weeks ago, then I'll be satisfied with this incidental but regrettable yeast for this particular instance. In the future I will be ordering high-alcohol-performing yeast.

Yes, I know "bread yeast" is not a preferable organism, but this one worked well twice for me, at least this brand, and it's all I had to work with. The beautyberries were free and fresh, while sugar is not all that cheap. I know it's supposed to die at 12%, but it surely didn't, and I've read from other people that they also sometimes achieve a higher alcohol content with a bread yeast. Perhaps this had to do with the amount of yeast, etc.--I wouldn't know, but like I said these were no 13% alcohol brews.

It was fairly easy last time to get a higher alcohol content and so I'm confident I can do it again with the same yeast and temperature. However if 6 pounds of sugar for 1 1/2 gallons is not sufficient for a high-alcohol wine, then I know I will want to add more sugar at some point to ensure that the yeast performs like it did last time. I would imagine that those previous fruits contained some more sugar than the mere beautyberries, at any rate.

I realize that without a reading, the wine could possibly be too sweet but as it stands the wine is not at risk of ending too sweet as to what's already in it.

 

[winetortoise]

As an added note, the bubbles seem to be increasing now that some time has passed and I've slightly increased the room temperature. So far, so good. Still wondering whether more sugar will be needed later, or if I should have used relatively a little more yeast. Perhaps this alludes to a further fermentation with the addition of more yeast later on...?

How does 7 grams of yeast fair against 6 pounds sugar vs. 1 1/2 gallons? Considering, how much sugar might should I add for the second dose?

 

[sour_grapes]

Unfortunately I don't have any of the equipment for any readings, so it has been a guessing game on "how much sugar" I really want with these wines.

Are you opposed to obtaining the correct instrumentation (which only costs ~$7), or not able to, or do you just not quite have it in hand as of yet?

However if 6 pounds of sugar for 1 1/2 gallons is not sufficient for a high-alcohol wine, then I know I will want to add more sugar at some point to ensure that the yeast performs like it did last time.

If you add 6 lbs of sugar to 1.5 gallons of water, the resultant SG will be 1.141. If you (somehow) ferment this to dry, the alcohol content would be 19%. (Here is a nice calculator: http://web2.airmail.net/sgross/fermcalc/fermcalc_applet.html)

 

[winetortoise]

Are you opposed to obtaining the correct instrumentation (which only costs ~$7), or not able to, or do you just not quite have it in hand as of yet?

I don't have the money at present is all. Soon I may be able to get one if they are only seven dollars.

If you add 6 lbs of sugar to 1.5 gallons of water, the resultant SG will be 1.141. If you (somehow) ferment this to dry, the alcohol content would be 19%.

Thanks! That is quite helpful in terms of perspective for me. So, by this logic I probably don't need any more sugar as it likely won't ferment all the way to 19%, and may already turn out a little sweet... perhaps.

After checking again today, I've noticed that with plunging and breathing the must has become increasingly bubbly, so I'm not worried that it isn't active enough anylonger, as it seems quite busy already. I was just quite nervous about my baby!

With the last batch, it was 3 liters of water, which is 0.8 gallons, with approximately 3 pounds of sugar, plus the blueberries and strawberries and one sweet apple. I used a started full 7 grams yeast on that. That wine fermented for a long while until dry, and seemed quite strong. Perhaps it was the frequent plunging and warm temperature allowed the yeast to consume all the sugar--who knows? Also I was sure to allow the brew to breathe well during the primary. The primary fermentation seemed to last several weeks, and I was unsure that it was slowing down at all for awhile after that.

Unfortunately I couldn't get the applet to work with my computer. I wonder what the calculated alcohol percentage of that last batch should come to. Would you have a calculated approximate estimate of that?

 

[sour_grapes]

With the last batch, it was 3 liters of water, which is 0.8 gallons, with approximately 3 pounds of sugar, plus the blueberries and strawberries and one sweet apple. I used a started full 7 grams yeast on that. That wine fermented for a long while until dry, and seemed quite strong. Perhaps it was the frequent plunging and warm temperature allowed the yeast to consume all the sugar--who knows? Also I was sure to allow the brew to breathe well during the primary. The primary fermentation seemed to last several weeks, and I was unsure that it was slowing down at all for awhile after that.

Unfortunately I couldn't get the applet to work with my computer. I wonder what the calculated alcohol percentage of that last batch should come to. Would you have a calculated approximate estimate of that?

If you add 3 lbs of sugar to 3 liters of water, the resultant SG would be 1.135. If you (somehow) fermented this to dry, the ABV would be about 19%.

It would be nearly impossible to ferment this to dry. If you are using bread yeast, it is certain not to go to dry.

 

[winetortoise]

If you add 3 lbs of sugar to 3 liters of water, the resultant SG would be 1.135. If you (somehow) fermented this to dry, the ABV would be about 19%.

It would be nearly impossible to ferment this to dry. If you are using bread yeast, it is certain not to go to dry.

Well, it certainly tastes very dry. I suppose there is a faint sweetness in the aftertaste, but it's very hardly detectable. It's a pretty dry wine. The alcohol might be covering it up somewhat. But I assure you, it is very nearly dry and I used 3 pounds of sugar. If there was much sugar left in it at all, we would taste it. It must be slightly less than that.

 

[sour_grapes]

Well, it certainly tastes very dry.

Well, once you get a hydrometer, you will know for sure.

 

[winetortoise]

Well, once you get a hydrometer, you will know for sure.

With future wines, yes. I can't wait! For now, I'm in the middle of making the beautyberry wine already. The last wine wasn't noticeably sweet, but it was hot and dryly fruity with this tart blueberry aftertaste that lingers on and on. I really enjoyed it and it was plenty strong for me, so I'm attempting a very similar recipe with this batch.

If this wine were to end up as not-sweet as the last wine had, I would be fine with that, but I wouldn't mind if it was a little sweet this time. So, I don't think adding some syrup would be a bad idea, just to be sure that it reaches its "maximum potential" of alcohol. This is day 3-4, so when would you suggest I add the syrup (thinking 2 cups)?

 

[sour_grapes]

With future wines, yes. I can't wait! For now, I'm in the middle of making the beautyberry wine already.

It is true that without an initial SG reading, you won't be able to determine the ABV. But, you will be able to tell if it is dry or not. If the SG is below 1.000, like, say, 0.995, you are pretty much dry. If it is above 1.000, you still have some residual sugar.

If this wine were to end up as not-sweet as the last wine had, I would be fine with that, but I wouldn't mind if it was a little sweet this time. So, I don't think adding some syrup would be a bad idea, just to be sure that it reaches its "maximum potential" of alcohol. This is day 3-4, so when would you suggest I add the syrup (thinking 2 cups)?

The safest and easiest way would be to wait until it ferments as far as it can go (perhaps to dry), let it clear a bit, add potassium sorbate, then add the sugar.

 

[winetortoise]

It is true that without an initial SG reading, you won't be able to determine the ABV. But, you will be able to tell if it is dry or not. If the SG is below 1.000, like, say, 0.995, you are pretty much dry. If it is above 1.000, you still have some residual sugar.

I imagine it also won't taste sweet at that point. What a simple test, I can't wait for that hydrometer.

The safest and easiest way would be to wait until it ferments as far as it can go (perhaps to dry), let it clear a bit, add potassium sorbate, then add the sugar.

So, the yeast will still be living once the sugars are expunged? Good to know. Thanks for that tip!

 

[Stressbaby]

Beautyberry

I have made a couple of batches of beautyberry wine. Nasty stuff. Good luck to you. Mine wound out going down the drain.

 

[winetortoise]

I have made a couple of batches of beautyberry wine. Nasty stuff. Good luck to you. Mine wound out going down the drain.

It tastes good at the moment. I love the juice as well, sort of like apple juice. If you don't like the flavor of the berries, the chances are you won't like the wine, but I enjoy the musty flavor and faint chocolaty aftertaste from the berries so I'm hoping I will enjoy the wine as well. Guess I'll see how it tastes at the end.

*Ah, I see your thread. Well, perhaps the freezing and oxidization affected the flavor with your batch? The color looks very similar to the color of mine now, although mine is a little pink. The dark tea color definitely comes from the berry flesh and is normal. With both batches of wine and every time I make juice, there's the slightly pinkish dark tea color. I knew from juicing that I would need a plethora of berries to bring any body and obvious flavor to the wine. The more berries you use, the less tea-color and more pinkish-color you retain from the skins. Also, I believe that more seeds helps with the body.

As for the astringency difference between yours and Keller's, I would imagine that in some habitats these bushes produce more astringency than with others, just as in some places blackberries can be very sweet and grapey, while in other more sandy or clayish environments they are more sour and mealy. Some people seem to report that these berries are "too astringent" to eat, but I have not encountered such a crop in Florida, anyplace, as of yet. Although, they certainly do have some astringency no matter how you pick it. With wild cultivars such as these, the flavor differences will be remarkable across regions. Some will be better for eating, some for cooking, some for jam and some for wine.

*Also, I imagine that my juice and wine are more diluted with water than yours were, because the beautyberry flavor is way too much on it's own once you've mashed/juiced/processed. Even when making the jam I use sufficient water added to staunch that flavor.

 

[winetortoise]

It's about day seven or eight.

Fermentation has been going nicely, but my question is should I continue to plunge the must on top (it's mostly only translucent skins) even now, or should I just let that thin layer rest on top until primary is finished?

So far, I've been remixing them back down into the brew every day. Should I continue to immerse them back down, or leave the layer alone at this point? Should I simply scoop or siphon these out if they seem totally expunged? The yeast seem to be working beneath the liquid surface and so beneath the layer of skins on top.

 

[winetortoise]

It's about day 14 of fermentation, and the two batches are still bubbling away. Seems to be slowing down though.
What I'm mulling over now is the colors. The small batch has a stunning pinkish-rose sort of color, like the color of the berries but brighter and lighter. The sample I saved from excess cleared very nicely. Not bad but very sweet due to the lack of secondary.

The medium batch has an orange-red peachy color that is not too far from the small batch's color, but has more of the yellow from the innards of the berries and so it's just darker and more orange than pink. There were only two differences in how I brewed them:
For the medium batch, I eviscerated the berries in a blender because I wanted to fully extract the fluids, and beautyberries are tricky to smash. Secondly, I boiled that batch before fermenting.
For the small batch, I only crushed the berries somewhat, and allowed them to ferment more or less whole, and without cooking. After they had fermented for several days, I later used a coffee press plunger to crush them a little and release some more juice.

Was it that I didn't boil the berries that preserved the brighter, richer color of the skins? Or, as I suspect, is it that the skins were extracted more than the flesh of the berries because the flesh was less exposed and still mostly within the skin? I realize that the second possibility isn't exclusive from the first, but I just need to exclude the first possibility so I know not to process the berries via boiling.

This is an important question for me, because when I make beautyberry wine next year, or what have you, I will want more of this bright rose color, rather than peach color. I couldn't find much information on color outcomes in wines.

 

[winetortoise]

In the end, both batches cleared into essentially the same color.

They hadn't completely cleared altogether, but they had mostly cleared and I started drinking them.

I am really fond of the color. It gives the wine a very distinct look. The smell is sweet, as the wine warms, like bubblegum. There is a little sweetness left in the wine, but it also has a notable dryness. I assume that it didn't ferment to dry because the yeast couldn't go that far.

In total, fermentation took 23 or 24 days.

I will make more beautyberry wine based on this recipe in the Spring, the time when here the beautyberries are already fruiting. Some improvements I will have, beyond obviously better yeasts, will be somewhat more beautyberries. I didn't want the flavor to be too strong, because I know how pungent beautyberries can be when they are processed. However, due to the higher alcohol, the more delicate tastes of the berries are subdued. Furthermore, I will not eviscerate the berries, but only crush them. This way, the delicate flavors will be accentuated while the primary musky "seed" flavor, I believe, will remain controlled.

After clearing mostly, the wine did improve while resting. Before it had the chance to age, however, I have drank it all. It certainly was good enough.