Making the softest Petite Sirah possible

[NorCal]

I’ll be getting a bin (1,000 lb) of late harvest (27+ brix) Petite Sirah (PS) next week. I’ve drank more PS that I did didn’t like than PS that I’ve enjoyed. The tannin and gripiness of the wine has made it not all that enjoyable to me, unless I’m eating a big fat steak. My goal is to make a dark, fruit forward, soft, smooth Petite Sirah that is approachable at an early age.

plan:
- super clean sort, no stems, no jacks
- water back to 25.5-26.0
- conservative on any acid adjustment, living with a 3.8 wine
- easy on the punch downs
- pull off the skins at 1 brix
- free run only into the barrel
- easy on the oak; 2nd year equivalent French oak, medium toast

Any other ideas?

Picture of my retired barrels care of @4score.

 

[Boatboy24]

Don't know if Lallzyme or other similar enzymes are part of your normal protocol, but skipping those may be in order if they are. Otherwise, I think you have a good plan of attack.

 

[crushday]

Is there a way to stop the ferment at 1.000 - 0.998? A teeny bit of residual sugar might help your cause...

I'm not a fan of sorbate - do you have a way of cold crashing and filtering?

 

[pgentile]

Sounds like you are trying to create cold fusion with wine. An early drinking PS might not be possible. I've never come across a PS I didn't like though, the more tannin and gripiness the better, but to each his own. Your approach sounds good.

Those skins are going to have a lot of goodness in them still, second run wine?

 

[NorCal]

Sounds like you are trying to create cold fusion with wine. An early drinking PS might not be possible. I've never come across a PS I didn't like though, the more tannin and gripiness the better, but to each his own. Your approach sounds good.

Those skins are going to have a lot of goodness in them still, second run wine?

This is what I love about wine making. There is no right way. Ive made a second wine 3X and dumped them each time, swearing I’d never do it again. I’m not a fan of a tannic, oaky wine…just not a wine I enjoy. I want the boldness of a PS, yet the finesse of a Merlot. Possible? Not sure, but I’ll try.

 

[NorCal]

Is there a way to stop the ferment at 1.000 - 0.998? A teeny bit of residual sugar might help your cause...

I'm not a fan of sorbate - do you have a way of cold crashing and filtering?

I wouldn’t bet on someone’s ability to stop a ferment, without adding alcohol greater than yeast‘s ability to work. I would press early to avoid tannin extraction in a high alcohol environment that would exist later in the ferment.

 

[Jay A]

Would you consider low ferm temps? Might be catch 22, longer fermentation, but less extraction?

 

[Cynewulf]

This may not be exactly what you’re going for, but I’ve had a delicious, lighter bodied saperavi on a couple of trips to Georgia made by Iberieli. A lot of the saperavi made there can be brutally tannic but this one was very nice drinking young. I can’t find notes from my discussion with the lady working in the wine shop of the collective but I think she said the winemaker essentially did an inverse saignée, pressing off around 15% of the skins and adding the juice back in to the must for a higher juice to skin ratio, resulting in a fruitier and less tannic (but still very red) wine. It’s delicious but from your description I’m not sure it’s the style you’re after as it may end up being easier to drink but also a bit lighter than you are going for.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

This recipe for elderberry wine might have a couple of useful ideas. The challenge seems similar: elderberries have a high skin/seed:juice ratio so using a lot of fruit can make very tannic wine:

- Cold soak to get some extraction before alcoholic fermentation starts. Add SO2 to help mitigate potential spoilage during this phase.
- Press off some or all of the must before fermentation is finished and add back the juice - much as @Cynewulf suggests above, and I guess that's what you're implying by pulling off the skins at 1 brix.

You could also do extended maceration once fermentation is over, but both this and cold soaking before fermentation increase the risk of spoilage - particularly with that high pH. I would be inclined to drop the pH a bit, particularly if you're going to do malolactic conversion which may soften the wine but also bump up the pH. And I wouldn't go too easy on punchdowns, lest you get some VA bacteria established in the cap (again, more likely at higher pH).

 

[mainshipfred]

Don't know if this helps or not. It is from an article in Winemaker Magazine.

Taming tannins
There are a number of possible solutions if you have extracted excessive tannins, all very effective. The extent of tannin “removal” depends largely on timing, i.e. trying to remove small vs. large molecules, and concentration.

Tannins have a strong affinity for proteins, and so, you can fine using a protein-containing fining agent such as egg whites, gelatin, or isinglass. Since gelatin comes in different formulations, i.e. low vs. high molecular weight, choose the one that best fits your needs based on the manufacturer’s recommendations, and avoid overfining. Gelatin formulations with different molecular weights show preferential affinity for tannin size.

PVPP, short for polyvinylpolypyrrolidone, is a highly insoluble, high-molecular weight synthetic polymer that is effective in absorbing and precipitating small tannins. And so, PVPP is recommended for early-drinking wine or where bitterness needs to be toned down.

Another potential solution is gum arabic (gum acacia), a natural gum extracted from the sap of specific species of African Acacia trees. It is very effective in reducing tannin astringency and increasing the perception of body or volume, and reducing the perceptions of acidity and tannin harshness, while adding body.

And lastly, you can tame tannins by readjusting the wine balance by tweaking sugar and acidity contents. I often repeat Émile Peynaud’s guidelines; keep them in mind when tweaking your wine. “A wine tolerates acidity better when its alcoholic degree is higher; acid, bitter and astringent tastes reinforce each other; the hardest wines are those which are at the same time acid and also rich in tannins; a considerable amount of tannin is more acceptable if acidity is low and alcohol is high. The less tannic a red wine is, the more acidity it can support (necessary for its freshness); the richer a red wine is in tannins (necessary for its development and for its longevity) the lower should be its acidity; a high tannin content allied to a pronounced acidity produces the hardest and most astringent wines.”

 

[Cap Puncher]

I would try to do multiple delestages during primary fermentation. Basic idea remove cap/ skins into sanitized buckets. Then, pour juice out of the fermentor into separate buckets. Remove the seeds at the bottom. Pour skins back in the primary. juice back on top.

I usually do it once during a ferment. But I know some do it multiple times. You could do each day removing seeds each day. I wouldn’t do it past SG 1.050. Yeast stop taking up oxygen around 9% alcohol. SG of 1.050 is a nice cut point so you don’t over shoot and start to oxidize too much.

To Cynewulf’s point , you could remove some skins each time too.

Less seed tannin later in fermentation should soften the wine.The higher the alcohol the more seed extract later I. The ferment.

This is a lot of work but a classic French technique. They probably describe their process more elegantly, but what I described is home winemakers style and the same concept.

The article below describes the benefits and a more “complicated “ process. The above process I described is the same in concept but definitely easier. I usually use my wife’s stainless Kitchenaid stand mixer bowl (6quarts) for taking out the cap and transferring the juice into buckets. It works well.

https://winemakermag.com/technique/237-delestage-fermentation-techniques

 

[Chris Johnson]

Delestage for the win. It also keeps it from going reductive. I did it with Amador fruit last year in Cote Rotie style PS With 3% Vio. It‘s still a monster, but more manageable than it’s cousin which is PS from the same vineyard with a bit of Mouvedre and some Syrah. The cousin may be drinkable in 5-6 years.

 

[Boatboy24]

Delestage for the win. It also keeps it from going reductive. I did it with Amador fruit last year in Cote Rotie style PS With 3% Vio. It‘s still a monster, but more manageable than it’s cousin which is PS from the same vineyard with a bit of Mouvedre and some Syrah. The cousin may be drinkable in 5-6 years.

By "Vio", I assume you mean Viognier. And what a great idea - one of my favorite white wines anyway.

 

[NorCal]

Delestage for the win. It also keeps it from going reductive. I did it with Amador fruit last year in Cote Rotie style PS With 3% Vio. It‘s still a monster, but more manageable than it’s cousin which is PS from the same vineyard with a bit of Mouvedre and some Syrah. The cousin may be drinkable in 5-6 years.

Alright, going to see if I can figure out how to do this with 1,000 pounds of fruit...the 5-6 years in the bottle is exactly what I am trying to avoid.

 

[Jay A]

Something I've always wanted to try, just difficult at these quantities. Good luck!!

 

[Chris Johnson]

By "Vio", I assume you mean Viognier. And what a great idea - one of my favorite white wines anyway.

Yep, viognier. Gave it a really nice nose and lift. I‘m really pleased with the wine. I wish it was my idea, but Keplinger Sumo was the inspiration.

 

[Cap Puncher]

Alright, going to see if I can figure out how to do this with 1,000 pounds of fruit...the 5-6 years in the bottle is exactly what I am trying to avoid

Multiple 5-6 gallon food grade buckets is a good answer. I would use those for the skins. Pump out (or scoop with bucket) the juice to another larger fermentor. Remove seeds. Add skins back in original fermentor and pour/ pump in the juice. I’ve done it with 350 lbs and it takes more time cleaning and sanitizing than anything else. 1000 lb will be some work. Great efforts result great rewards. Good luck!

 

[knockabout]

A touch of glycerin ( range of 2-4 oz for 6 gal has softened things up without adding sweet perception for us when used on some of the bigger reds in past) or Ultima soft or both would help softening up The mouthfeel and the tannins. Scott labs has a super cool finishing kit for trials.

 

[Snafflebit]

I’ve drank more PS that I did didn’t like than PS that I’ve enjoyed. The tannin and gripiness of the wine has made it not all that enjoyable to me, unless I’m eating a big fat steak.

Any other ideas?

I totally agree with you! I am served a LOT of Petite Sirah in Livermore at the tasting rooms and I think the tannic quality is overwhelming. It's not bitter, per se, just too much.... I am eager to hear your results.

 

[NorCal]

An update.

I consulted on a estate vineyard for a local winery, whose grapes turned out nice this year, versus a total loss last year. In return, they are going to run my grapes through their $50k destemmer and do a berry sort, followed by a 3 day cold soak. How could I say no?

I definitely crossed the “home made” line and won’t be entering this wine in home made competitions, but I’m really excited on what this wine is going to become.