Master Vintner Kit - Open open or closed fermentation

[rødvinselsker]

Started my second kit almost two nights ago. Master Vintner Winemakers Reserve cabernet, so no skins. I substituted the provided yeast with BM 4x4 hydrated with Go-Ferm Evo Protect, and the fermentation is crawling. As compared to the instructions (cover it and put on an air lock) EC Kraus seems to recommend any kit should begin with no cover since the yeast needs plenty of 02 to get started. Cold basement, so I have a heater and temp controller holding the must at 73° F. Any thoughts on that would be greatly appreciated.

 

[sour_grapes]

Yes, most of us here ferment in an open container. Most put a towel on top or just loosely set a bucket lid on top to keep critters out, but most of us do not attempt to exclude air early in the fermentation.

 

[crushday]

If it helps, I have made dozens of kits using the FastFerment conical fermenters. You mix everything and when it’s up to temp, pitch the yeast. Then, close it up until it’s dry. No stirring, no racking and, no mess - all the sediment falls into the collection bulb.

However, my most recent kit ferment (started March 29th, 2020) was open ferment and Master Vintners Sommelier Select Cabernet. On April 2nd, I racked to carboys. The SG started at 1.104 and was down to .995 in just a few days using Avante yeast. I keep my fermenting room at 70 degrees and the must got as high as 79 on it’s own.

My experience with BM4X4 is robust and it takes longer to gather momentum. I think you’ll be fine as long as you followed the inoculation directions within specified ranges.

 

[rødvinselsker]

If it helps, I have made dozens of kits using the FastFerment conical fermenters. You mix everything and when it’s up to temp, pitch the yeast. Then, close it up until it’s dry. No stirring, no racking and, no mess - all the sediment falls into the collection bulb.

However, my most recent kit ferment (started March 29th, 2020) was open ferment and Master Vintners Sommelier Select Cabernet. On April 2nd, I racked to carboys. The SG started at 1.104 and was down to .995 in just a few days using Avante yeast. I keep my fermenting room at 70 degrees and the must got as high as 79 on it’s own.

My experience with BM4X4 is robust and it takes longer to gather momentum. I think you’ll be fine as long as you followed the inoculation directions within specified ranges.

That's very helpful. New to this, I haven't had time to compare outcomes from different yeasts, both in performance and flavor profile, but it's going to be a long learning curve.

 

[VitnerHydrologist]

I have a Master Vitner kit I’m using to make strawberry wine. The lid on the primary fermenter will not stay closed, due to faulty ribbing. I didn’t find this out until after I set everything up. So I just have the lid loosely covering it for now. I used/rehydrated the yeast that came with the kit and it is definitely crawling along.

 

[rødvinselsker]

I place a folded over piece of cheese cloth over the top. My biggest concern at this point is that using BM 4x4 w/GoFerm for the first time, I didn't realize the steps to hydrate. Watched a Scott Labs video today and clearly said hydrate the GoFerm in 5X's water by weight at 110° F, then when it hits 104° add the yeast. May explain why my fermentation started and remains a bit on the slow side.

 

[Scooter68]

I'd be sure to use a cloth that keeps out the tiny little fruit flies - not sure that all cheese cloth out there will do that. But absolutely no requirement to use an airlock during fermentation at least until you get down to a point where there is no longer a foam blanket on top. (Generally at or lower than 1.010 SG)
Just be sure that you have enough space at the top of your fermentation container for 2-3 inches of foam - some yeast/wine must combinations will produce copious amounts of foam some will barely cover the surface but that can change overnight and foam overflows are both messy and wasteful.

 

[rødvinselsker]

Plenty of head space, ~6 gal in a 6.5 gal Big Mouth. I diluted the concentrate just enough to hit 23.5 brix, so SG started around 1.098; not moving very quickly so it was barely at 1.088 this morning. Ferment began Thursday @ 7:00 PM. If things don't improve I may be asking someone for advice on whether I should consider re-pitching additional yeast.

 

[crushday]

There’s no harm in pitching additional yeast and can be done at anytime. Sprinkle on top.

 

[rødvinselsker]

I'd be sure to use a cloth that keeps out the tiny little fruit flies - not sure that all cheese cloth out there will do that. But absolutely no requirement to use an airlock during fermentation at least until you get down to a point where there is no longer a foam blanket on top. (Generally at or lower than 1.010 SG)
Just be sure that you have enough space at the top of your fermentation container for 2-3 inches of foam - some yeast/wine must combinations will produce copious amounts of foam some will barely cover the surface but that can change overnight and foam overflows are both messy and wasteful.

Thanks, just cut up an old, clean t-shirt. I'm sure it will still allow plenty of 02 for a good ferment.

 

[rødvinselsker]

OK, me the newb also forgot that stirring the must at least once a day is important to keep the yeast suspended so it can work efficiently. Didn't stir it the first 36 hours which might explain why it was slow to start. Stirring it 2-3 times daily, and activity seems to be pretty robust. Overnight the SG is down to 1.05.

 

[rødvinselsker]

Quick question now that I'm approaching 1.01 SG: I've read more than a handful of "procedures" that describe racking the wine after MLF , then wait until the wine clears, rack, and wait for it to clear more. I know a kit will not go through MLF, but they do essentially force clarification using fining agents. Is that because they want the wine to be drinkable early vs. waiting for fining, which seems to be more the SOP in winemaking from grapes or frozen must? http://www.sachomewine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Red-Wine-Instruction.pdf

 

[Chuck E]

Quick question now that I'm approaching 1.01 SG: I've read more than a handful of "procedures" that describe racking the wine after MLF , then wait until the wine clears, rack, and wait for it to clear more. I know a kit will not go through MLF, but they do essentially force clarification using fining agents. Is that because they want the wine to be drinkable early vs. waiting for fining, which seems to be more the SOP in winemaking from grapes or frozen must? http://www.sachomewine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Red-Wine-Instruction.pdf

Correct, kits are designed to produce "drinkable" wine quickly. You will get a better wine if you have patience and let time do the work for you. I don't use fining agents unless I have a particular problem to solve. I bulk age my carboys for 1 year minimum, racking every 3 months.

 

[rødvinselsker]

Correct, kits are designed to produce "drinkable" wine quickly. You will get a better wine if you have patience and let time do the work for you. I don't use fining agents unless I have a particular problem to solve. I bulk age my carboys for 1 year minimum, racking every 3 months.

Thanks for your input. Next question, would you ferment to .998 in the primary then rack, or do as they suggest and rack into a carboy at 1.01-1.02? I’m inclined to keep stirring, put on the air lock and then rack when it’s completely dry.

 

[Ajmassa]

Thanks for your input. Next question, would you ferment to .998 in the primary then rack, or do as they suggest and rack into a carboy at 1.01-1.02? I’m inclined to keep stirring, put on the air lock and then rack when it’s completely dry.

Yep. That’s the way I’ve always done it and what I feel most comfortable with: fermenting in the bucket till dry then racking.

Regarding the clearing agents included there really is no harm in using them, especially being your 2nd kit. It’s just more insurance that all will go well. When I would make a kit I would follow the instructions just as they were written more or less- (fining agents/degassing etc) and then when they instruct to bottle I would simply top up and put to sleep for a while. Biggest reason I age for as long as I can in bulk is because once in the bottle they easily start to disappear. Not an easy thing to keep your hands off them! Bulk aging cures this issue for me.

 

[Scooter68]

As the wine gets down to around 1.010 you can cut back on the stirring. Let things begin to settle. At this point the CO2 blanket will start to thin out and you want to be ready to leave all the sediment behind when you rack. Since there are no skins there isn't much to be gained by racking any of the sediment especially if you added fining agents to it already.
As far as when to rack. If the ferment is moving along smartly you can wait until it is all the way dry AND if you are doing that - you rack when the SG stays the same for 3 days, not by a particular number.

 

[hounddawg]

I have a Master Vitner kit I’m using to make strawberry wine. The lid on the primary fermenter will not stay closed, due to faulty ribbing. I didn’t find this out until after I set everything up. So I just have the lid loosely covering it for now. I used/rehydrated the yeast that came with the kit and it is definitely crawling along.

View attachment 60435

a fairly decent color,

 

[VitnerHydrologist]

a fairly decent color,

I should have left the berries longer. The recipe I followed said a few hours. I think it’s going to turn out more like strawberry cider than wine, but we’ll see!

 

[szap]

Some of the kits I have done have either wood chips or wood sawdust and I like to rack off of that as soon as gravity tells me to. The only time I don't close up my wine fermenting bucket is if there are grape skins that need to be pushed down everyday otherwise I push the lid on tight.. Blow off tubes can be your friend.

 

[hounddawg]

I should have left the berries longer. The recipe I followed said a few hours. I think it’s going to turn out more like strawberry cider than wine, but we’ll see!

dang strawberry cider sounds good,
Dawg