Micro oxygenation

[hounddawg]

I am surprised that there isn't an old school way of micro oxidizing in different vessels. I know that commercial wineries have complex systems that can introduce the correct O2 needed, but you would think there would be a simpler way.

It would be interesting to compare different batches trying different timelines, but If a barrel is slowly letting oxygen pass through the wood, wouldn't simply taking the top off of your carboy periodically reintroduce O2 into the small amount of headspace which would be absorbed over time, and accomplish the same thing. Or am I not grasping the concept at all?

We are adding K-meta to protect from large amounts of O2, then wish for micro exposure. What if you opened your carboy at the 1.5 month point when k-meta has diminished and allow air into the top inch. Micro oxygenation, no? Maybe this needs to be done every 2 weeks?

Am I thinking to simplistically?

loan me a cork screw and 3 days access to your wines, I'll oxidize them for you. TRUST ME,,,, just ask the old timers--opp's better not,
Dawg

 

[winemanden]

Amphora go back 8,000 years.

Wood is still the new kid on the block.

Stainless is not even out of diapers....

I mostly use HDPE... (plastic). That may be embryonic....

I guess my point was, what really matters is, what is or was, "predominate" in any period in history can vary. That this can, does and will always vary. Because culture always varies, as do wine making tastes and preferences. Both in space and time.

I recently watched an episode of Great Continental Rail Journeys where the presenter visited this vineyard in Georgia ( the country not the state). They are still using Amphorae to make their wine, buried in the ground, with clamped down lids with airlocks in them. The wine they tasted looked a bit orange coloured, a bit oxidized to my mind.
Chile makes some good wines but I read that before the modern winemakers from USA and Europe got involved that was how they preferred their wines in Chile???
I guess it's a bit like Cilantro/Coriander, some people love it, some people hate it, including me.

 

[winemaker81]

I recently watched an episode of Great Continental Rail Journeys where the presenter visited this vineyard in Georgia ( the country not the state). They are still using Amphorae to make their wine, buried in the ground, with clamped down lids with airlocks in them. The wine they tasted looked a bit orange coloured, a bit oxidized to my mind.

It's also possible that the wine is "orange wine", whites fermented on the skins. AFAIK, the idea of pressing the juice out of white grapes to make a lighter wine is a fairly modern concept.

 

[balatonwine]

The wine they tasted looked a bit orange coloured, a bit oxidized to my mind.

What @winemaker81 said.

Do not confuse oxidized wine with skin contact wine. They may look similar, but they are worlds apart.

After all, Pinot noir, a famous red wine grape, is often also used in fine Champaign (a white wine) and one can even make a varietal white wine from Pinot noir.

Wine making... So varied. Which is why it is so much fun!

 

[sjjan]

I am interested in micro oxidation as my wines are all fermented and aged in stainless steel floating lid Speidel tanks and the reductive style is giving good wines but sometimes the wine is too linear or closed.

Will micro oxidation also work with amphora?

 

[winemaker81]

Will micro oxidation also work with amphora?

My take from what I read is "no".

2,000 years ago the amphora worked because oxidation was the problem. A full amphora with a "well sealed" (based upon what worked then) entrance kept the wine from oxidizing. It was the ancient equivalent of a carboy with a solid bung. Better quality wine (based upon their standards) were made from dried grapes with other fruits (e.g., dates), was sweet, acidic, and high ABV -- all of which contributed to longevity.

One comment about wine quality was that it varied from "barely palatable to putrid", by modern standards. Most wine was a caloried part of the diet, making water more-or-less safe to drink.

For micro-oxidation, my guess is that you need a barrel or one of the modern plastics that supposedly provides the effect.

 

[stickman]

@sjjan
Here are some Amphorae from a manufacturer in Italy, they claim the vessels have micro oxygenation rates comparable to barrels, but you can choose among three different porosities depending on desired use. Beautiful and interesting, but I'm sure they are expensive.

https://www.sirioanfore.com/GB/Home

 

[Ohio Bob]

Gonna need the all in one pump! I don’t think I could lift one of those if it was empty.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Will micro oxidation also work with amphora?

you need to evaluate the glaze used on the amphora. A baked clay with no finish will be more porous than a wood barrel. A 100 year old sauerkraut 20 gallon crock will have a glass glaze on it therefore is oxygen tight.
For your situation I would wonder if there is a HDPE version of the stainless lid.

 

[winemanden]

It's also possible that the wine is "orange wine", whites fermented on the skins. AFAIK, the idea of pressing the juice out of white grapes to make a lighter wine is a fairly modern concept.

Here are a couple of screen shots taken from the "Georgia" episode

 

[balatonwine]

Here are some Amphorae from a manufacturer in Italy.... but I'm sure they are expensive.

Over a decade ago I considered buying Amphorae. From Italy. Yes, they were expensive. But what was really expensive was the shipping cost, which was even more than the cost of the Amphorae.

Back then, the Amphorae came in two treatments: With or without bees wax coating on the inside. The bees waxed ones were, I believe, for those not being buried into the ground to prevent over oxygenation. I assume a huge amount of earth around a buried Amphorae mitigates O2 ingress... But I only assume this. Since looking at the quoted shipping bill, I decided to stick with my plastic solutions and did not pursue it further.....