MLF - coinocculation versus post-AF innoculation
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Ajmassa
just a guy
Dude, your asking some good questions. Seems like every one is gray, with many discussions had in the past.
But yes, they say adding up to 50ppm at crush is fine to protect, kill wild yeast, yet still not inhibit MLF. Different strains are more so2 tolerant than others. I've been adding none at all, co-inoculating, and it might sound crazy but I'm 12 days in and it's already arguably finished.
But I think that was my last "no so2 addition" ever. It's Nerve racking. My juice bucket took off before I even touched it, and they both finished short of being fully dry.
I don't blame the co-inoculation tho. I blame the no so2 indirectly. Which rushed me to add enzymes and get started instead of properly adjusting ph and dialing the must in 1st.
If I had a "do-over" I'd add maybe 25-30 ppm, and do my adjustments and still co-inoculate 24-48 hrs after yeast. I think my high ph stressed the AF.
But yes, they say adding up to 50ppm at crush is fine to protect, kill wild yeast, yet still not inhibit MLF. Different strains are more so2 tolerant than others. I've been adding none at all, co-inoculating, and it might sound crazy but I'm 12 days in and it's already arguably finished.
But I think that was my last "no so2 addition" ever. It's Nerve racking. My juice bucket took off before I even touched it, and they both finished short of being fully dry.
I don't blame the co-inoculation tho. I blame the no so2 indirectly. Which rushed me to add enzymes and get started instead of properly adjusting ph and dialing the must in 1st.
If I had a "do-over" I'd add maybe 25-30 ppm, and do my adjustments and still co-inoculate 24-48 hrs after yeast. I think my high ph stressed the AF.
4score
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CH16 and VP41 are ones we've used for those. Also Enoferm Beta.
skeenatron
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Well here are the early results on the side by side, early bacterial inoculation for MLF. These wines have all been pressed and are in the barrel. No sulfur added as neither primary nor secondary fermentations are finished.
Glucose + Fructose (g/100mL)
Walla Walla Merlot no bacteria - 0.003
Walla Walla Merlot early inoculation bacteria - 0.006
Yakima Valley Syrah no bacteria - 0.007
Yakima Valley Syrah early inoculation bacteria - 0.011
Malic acid (g/L)
Walla Walla Merlot no bacteria - 1.061
Walla Walla Merlot early inoculation bacteria - .120
Yakima Valley Syrah no bacteria - 1.335
Yakima Valley Syrah early inoculation bacteria - 0.279
I have three more lots going through the same treatment but the early results are clear. Early MLF inoculation is rad. I have seen no signs of acetic acid production or stank aromas. All yeast and bacterial strains were screened for co-fermentation compatibility beforehand and bacteria was added at about 18 brix. So far I'm sold.
Having been inoculating early with great succes, it's nice to see some empirical evidence, thanks for taking the time to provide your numbers.
Although the difference is insignificant, I note that the sugars are just a smidge higher in the co-inoculated batches vs the ones that were not inoculated. It'll be interesting to see if that holds true across your sampling batches...........
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skeenatron
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Yeah true they technically are a hair higher currently but since I fermented and pressed the lots individually it could have been a number of factors. Also all the sugar numbers are so close to bone dry anyway it doesn't really matter. The fact that the early inoculation didn't stall anything was very nice to see. Consider me converted John haha!
Agreed, not significant differences in the sugars, but still interesting, we'll see if it holds up.
Glad your early inoculation trials went well. After a ton of reading before giving it a try, and although some of the more technical aspects were challenging to my engineering (non-biology/chemistry) brain, the positives out weighed the negatives. It seemed that as long as the must numbers were in line, and one uses a good / compatible yeast and mlb, nutrient protocol, they can perform their roles in favorable conditions, and concurrently.
Be watching to see how the rest of your concurrent inoculations go, as well as the sequential ones, please keep us posted.......
Yes, this is a very interesting thread. Keep it up guys, learning can be fun!
Thank you @skeenatron for taking the time to post your numbers.
pgentile
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More MLF info:
https://www.extension.iastate.edu/wine/lactic-acid-bacteria-and-wine-spoilage
If the choice is to encourage MLF (and avoid spoilage), then the following recommendations should be followed and MLF must be conducted under controlled conditions.
1. Use clean, healthy and high acid fruit.
2. Add a small dose of SO2 at crush. (About 25-30 ppm based on must pH.)
3. Adjust the must pH if necessary. A pH range of 3.3 to 3.5 is desirable for MLF. Since MLF causes an increase in pH, it is advisable to conduct MLF at the lowest must pH
as practically possible.
4. Inoculate the must with a pure starter culture of ML bacteria. The preferred time of inoculation is the 2nd or 3rd day after the alcoholic fermentation has begun. Low
ethanol, low SO2 and warm fermentation conditions favor MLF.
5. Take precautions to avoid a stuck fermentation. This would include not using overripe or moldy grapes, using a good dose of vigorously growing, pure culture of yeast,
adding yeast nutrient and maintaining controlled temperature conditions. Do not allow fermentation temperature to exceed about 30° C or 86° F.
6. Monitor MLF and as soon as it is completed, treat the wine to prevent further growth of any LAB.
......
SUMMARY
Lactic acid bacteria are present on grapes, contaminated winery equipment and storage vessels. Some of the LAB primarily decompose malic acid and under certain conditions, attack sugar and malic acid. These are often involved in MLF and rarely in wine spoilage. Certain other LAB grows in low acid conditions; metabolize sugars (pentose), tartaric acid and glycerol. These are more dangerous organisms and cause serious spoilage. Conditions such as moldy fruit, low alcohol, low SO2, high pH (3.5.and above), low acidity, presence of fermentable sugars and warm temperatures such as 25° C (78° F), favor the growth of LAB and can cause wine spoilage. Maintaining an adequate SO2 level, low pH, and sanitary conditions during processing can prevent the spoilage.
https://www.extension.iastate.edu/wine/lactic-acid-bacteria-and-wine-spoilage
If the choice is to encourage MLF (and avoid spoilage), then the following recommendations should be followed and MLF must be conducted under controlled conditions.
1. Use clean, healthy and high acid fruit.
2. Add a small dose of SO2 at crush. (About 25-30 ppm based on must pH.)
3. Adjust the must pH if necessary. A pH range of 3.3 to 3.5 is desirable for MLF. Since MLF causes an increase in pH, it is advisable to conduct MLF at the lowest must pH
as practically possible.
4. Inoculate the must with a pure starter culture of ML bacteria. The preferred time of inoculation is the 2nd or 3rd day after the alcoholic fermentation has begun. Low
ethanol, low SO2 and warm fermentation conditions favor MLF.
5. Take precautions to avoid a stuck fermentation. This would include not using overripe or moldy grapes, using a good dose of vigorously growing, pure culture of yeast,
adding yeast nutrient and maintaining controlled temperature conditions. Do not allow fermentation temperature to exceed about 30° C or 86° F.
6. Monitor MLF and as soon as it is completed, treat the wine to prevent further growth of any LAB.
......
SUMMARY
Lactic acid bacteria are present on grapes, contaminated winery equipment and storage vessels. Some of the LAB primarily decompose malic acid and under certain conditions, attack sugar and malic acid. These are often involved in MLF and rarely in wine spoilage. Certain other LAB grows in low acid conditions; metabolize sugars (pentose), tartaric acid and glycerol. These are more dangerous organisms and cause serious spoilage. Conditions such as moldy fruit, low alcohol, low SO2, high pH (3.5.and above), low acidity, presence of fermentable sugars and warm temperatures such as 25° C (78° F), favor the growth of LAB and can cause wine spoilage. Maintaining an adequate SO2 level, low pH, and sanitary conditions during processing can prevent the spoilage.
Boatboy24
No longer a newbie, but still clueless.
Picking up my Pinot Noir and Cab Franc today. Malbec and Merlot are pressed and in carboys. I'll add MLB to all four on Sunday.
