MLF with lo Ph

[Docwalleye]

I am doing a Carmenere and Merlot from Chilean must. Initial Ph was 3.38 - it fermented fine and then I racked off the lees and inoculated with VP41 and nutrients. After 2.5 weeks I tested to see the progress of MLF and it hadn’t started at all yet (Room temp is 71 Fahrenheit). I tested Ph as a possible reason why and found both were low. One at 3.18 and one at 3.15.

Added Potassium bicarbonate to raise the Ph and have it now at 3.4.

Question for the group - now that the Ph is more favorable, will the VP41 still be alive and start or do I need to add fresh?

 

[Johnd]

I am doing a Carmenere and Merlot from Chilean must. Initial Ph was 3.38 - it fermented fine and then I racked off the lees and inoculated with VP41 and nutrients. After 2.5 weeks I tested to see the progress of MLF and it hadn’t started at all yet (Room temp is 71 Fahrenheit). I tested Ph as a possible reason why and found both were low. One at 3.18 and one at 3.15.

Added Potassium bicarbonate to raise the Ph and have it now at 3.4.

Question for the group - now that the Ph is more favorable, will the VP41 still be alive and start or do I need to add fresh?

Its probably still viable and may take off, depending upon your SO2 levels, have you checked them?
Chileans come shipped without SO2, and it can be enough to inhibit your MLB, did you add any?
As we all know, MLB are sensitive to a few factors:

• pH
• Temperature
• Sulfite levels
• Alcohol Content

Get any ONE of these out of range, and you may still be successful, get two or more out of range, probably not going to happen. Push two to the edge, may or may not happen. Inoculating a wine with MLB after fermentation means that you’re already edging one factor, the ABV, which is probably at or near 14%.

Regarding your wine specifically, your pH is in a better place, get your temps up a few more degrees, you can’t change the ABV, nor the sulfite, but I’d be curious to know what they are. I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention the wine varietals, Merlot is known for its occasional unwillingness to undergo MLF, even when factors are in order, no one knows why, but it can be a problem child on its own.

The only failed MLF’s I’ve had, were Chileans, I believe it was due to the shipping / sulfite packing process. Not only free, but also bound sulfite will stifle MLF. Years ago, after the failed Chileans, I researched and dove into co-inoculation, and have not had a single MLF failure since. Why? I get my pH proper before fermentation, the ABV of must is 0%, the temps of fermentation are increasing to a level that MLB flourish, and I never add sulfites. Even if you have a little sulfite in there, my belief is that it will be overcome because your other factors are so favorable. Once you get MLB flourishing, it’s going to get the job done. Most of my MLF’s finish within a few weeks of the end of AF, allowing your wine to get sulfited / protected quickly. Just sharing my process / success, FWIW.

 

[Docwalleye]

Thank you John for the reply and the advice.

ABV is 13.3% - I did not test for SO2 but certainly can and would be good to rule out. I did not add any and assumed that it would be none or at least low enough to not hinder malolactic but will test that later today.

I am trying to gain the courage to run MLF and AF at the same time but have not had any issues doing it consecutively until now. Might be the nudge I need to give it a go going forward though.

 

[CDrew]

I am trying to gain the courage to run MLF and AF at the same time but have not had any issues doing it consecutively until now. Might be the nudge I need to give it a go going forward though.

Give it a shot and don't sweat it. The science says it is a superior method, and my experience(3 short years), like @Johnd has been 100% successful. I believe he uses VP41, I have always used CH16. I have added at first cap formation, but also a day or two later. There is nothing to fear. I like the fact that it allows you to get your wine protected with SO2 on average about 2-4 weeks earlier.

Regarding this vintage, it is likely it will take off if you warm it up just a bit, like 70F should do it. I had an un-intended MLF occur this year in my Rose, and it was at 62F the whole time, but the pH was higher than yours(3.8).

There is lots of published info about co-inoculation, consider reading these for more info.

Short version:
https://lallemandwine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/WE4-Australia.pdf
Endless long version:
http://flipbook.lallemandwine.com/malolacticfermentation/mobile/index.html#p=1

 

[cmason1957]

Thank you John for the reply and the advice.

ABV is 13.3% - I did not test for SO2 but certainly can and would be good to rule out. I did not add any and assumed that it would be none or at least low enough to not hinder malolactic but will test that later today.

I am trying to gain the courage to run MLF and AF at the same time but have not had any issues doing it consecutively until now. Might be the nudge I need to give it a go going forward though.

One thing to point out, it isn't just the free SO2 that can cause issues. The total SO2 you have is probably more of an issue, I don't know if most folks can test for that or not.

 

[Johnd]

One thing to point out, it isn't just the free SO2 that can cause issues. The total SO2 you have is probably more of an issue, I don't know if most folks can test for that or not.

That’s where the challenge sometimes comes in. When those grapes are shipped with SO2 soaked pads, in an SO2 filled container, it would seem that lots of SO2 gets bound. Even if you don’t add any once you get the grapes, there could be plenty there already. Add that to 13.3% ABV, lowish pH, and lowish temps.......it makes things harder.

Take a batch with some bound and/or free SO2, add MLB rehydrated with Acti-ML, fed with Optimism-Malo, no alcohol, pH in the 3.6 range, temps in the 70’s and climbing into the 80’s during AF, and the CO2 blowing off lots of SO2 during AF, it’s a much more hospitable environment. Once the little bugs get a foothold, they’ll see it through to the end.