MLF without any monitoring

[yanick]

Hello all,
I’ve been making wine with my dad for many years, the old Italian/garage way. Nothing too high tech, but ends up his method has given good/consistent results. I have however upgraded and purchased a wineeasy system so I can basically now do wine by myself as my fathers health is not great, and my own young ones still too young.

I have even inoculated with MLF the 45 gallons in the wineeasy after removing from gross lees 2 weeks ago, but don’t have a visual of what’s going on aside from the airlock that seems to not show any action anymore (airlock even seems “level”). There was a lot of action the first 10 days.

I’ve got a couple 5 gallons too that were not inoculated, but seemed to exhibit same activity, so I presume/hope they also had MLF. But their activity level also decreased in the last couple of days. Plus I seem to notice a lot of “residue” on the sides.

Could this mean MLF is done ?
Should I rack + SO2 quickly or still wait an additional 2 weeks to hit 4 weeks ?
How “reckless” is it to not monitor MLF ?
Thanks guys !

 

[Ajmassa]

Nice piece of equipment ya got there.
For what it’s worth- even when I see noticeable activity on my MLFs, the airlock is never bubbling from it. and also- even when seeing a seemingly complete test it’s still suggested to wait at least a few more weeks to ensure it finishes.

So without being able to test for it other than taste, if me, I would just let it go for a couple months before racking and stabilizing. To encourage the mlf you can always raise temps above room temperature, stir up the lees weekly, and/or add some mlf nutrients.

 

[NorCal]

Welcome! I’m a Wineasy man too.

I looked back on my records for reds, that had mlb was added sequentially. I was looking at what to expect on my Cab Franc this year. The CF has averaged 43 days, but you can see it can vary quite a bit.

I wouldn’t look at the days as exact either, as that was the day it was tested and showed completion, so it means it finished on or before that number of days.

Variety	Date MLF start	Date MLF end	days	Notes
Grenache	9/3/2016	10/23/2016	50
Syrah	9/3/2016	10/16/2016	43
CF	9/3/2016	10/16/2016	43	42.5
CF	9/13/2017	11/11/2017	59
CF	9/23/2018	10/27/2018	34
CF	10/6/2019	11/9/2019	34

 

[yanick]

First, thanks AJ, will wait a couple more weeks, and continue to stir once a week, and look for some nutrients.
Was just concerned about the residue in the neck, or on the sides, as there is ne added SO2 to protect it for now.
Thinking its probably just lees (at least on the carboy sides), and will gently wipe the top of the neck.

And to NorCal, I have to thank you personally for your all of your contributions in general, but specifically for sharing your experience on the wineeasy system. Very hard to justify paying a couple + grand on a system you dont really know alot about.
But pulled the trigger on 2 x 55 gal tanks with 1 lid. I was thinking of doing some bulk fermentation in a tank (as variable volume), and did try it, but not 100% seal the lid seal is hermetic.

But yeah, all this to say that I am very happy with the purchase, and amazed I can actually do like 235 litres of finished wine all by myself in 1 day (actually two because I waited for the second tank to reach 995.)

 

[user 36973]

If you want to know for sure, you can buy a paper chromatography kit for $70 that will give enough tests for years. Take the guess work out of it.
https://www.piwine.com/chromatography-test-kit-vertical-paper.html

 

[user 38734]

Hey Yanick,

Nice to hear from someone who made wines with his Pop. Italian / Slovenian here.

When I inoculate MLF, I never test for it, what's the point, just wait 3 months before racking again.

Me and my brothers and cousins started taking over the wine making from our aging fathers about 10 years ago here in the US. They never used anything but a pinch of SO2 before bottling. No commercial yeast, nutrients, enzymes, tannin, wood chips, MLF bacteria, acid, etc. Still the same way in the old country. And their wines are delicious. Not big bold complex fruit bombs, but delicious. Just use good grapes and don't f*ck it up, they said.

My brothers and cousins, some stayed old school and some read up and changed their processes. One even took the on-line viticulture course from UC Davis (he's a good dude, love him dearly, but he's never skinned a buck or run a trotline). Over the years, we all find ourselves drifting "back" (forward) to what we learned from our fathers, even Mr. Viticulture.

What's now known as "low intervention winemaking" used to have another name.....just "winemaking". My family, we don't make our wines this way because we're against commercial wines, or making a social statement, or against science, or to be fashionable, or any other reason except we've always made them this way and we like it.

Our wives and kids and grandkids mark the bottles, and we drink them as families with fresh homemade food. That's living'.

I've been thinking strongly about getting the WineEsay NorCal has, and I guess you did too. Sure would like to see pictures of your equipment set up - or a description of the merch - my back starts getting sore at season's end which is right about now.

 

[yanick]

Thats exactly it Booty Juice !
My first memories of me making wine with uncles, cousins is in the 80s, when I was 6-7, in Montreal. No yeasts, rusted equipment, no stainless to be seen, but wooden tools. I struggle right now with the idea to replace my old wooden must punch with a 80$ stainless steel potato punch (my uncles would say I'm CRAZY...).
My dad progressed through the years in his winemaking, minimizing oxygen contact, using yeasts. He even tried getting equipment to mesure SO2, but he even said "screw this, this is too complicated, adding 1 oz SO2 every 3-5 months is good with me". I'm looking to improve as much as possible, but really dont want to complicate things.
If I can do something that could improve the final product (noticeably) + make the process easier, I'll go for it.
I bought ML bacteria, and will compare to see if I can see the difference between inoculated and non inoculated.
I'll *think* about getting a chroma kit for next year...

 

[yanick]

I've been thinking strongly about getting the WineEsay NorCal has, and I guess you did too. Sure would like to see pictures of your equipment set up - or a description of the merch - my back starts getting sore at season's end which is right about now.
[/QUOTE]

Hey Booty Juice, as requested here a little review of my setup :
First, even though I'm in northern country with no real wineries but at least lucky to have Piazza market, that brings in all sorts of Cali grapes, stored in refrigerators. They have a destemmer-crusher, for 1CAD$ a case, so thats worth it. I bring back home pails of crushed grapes, alot easier and cleaner than when we crushed at hone with a old home made crusher.

I like to work in 52liter demi-johns, and that also pushed me to go for 2x55gallon to have around 220-230 liters of finished wine.
Bought 22 cases of grapes, and brought home 17 pails of crushed grapes, that I simply distributed in the 2 tanks (so thats pretty much all the physical work that goes in).
Added SO2 shortly after, and yeasts on day 1. Punched the cap, took temp and sugar readings every day, and pressed once it reached .995. Actually pressed the first tank after 7 days, and the second tank the following day, pressed pumace fairly dry (see in pictures). Was even able to pool the remaining must for one last press. Very simply put, the wineeasy system is EXTREMELY straightforward exactly as advertised, and alot less "dirtying". In terms of yield, its pretty much on par with what I was able to get with old, wooden press method.
22 cases gave me around 235 liters. Decided complete 2nd fermentation (MLF) in the wineeasy + rest in carboys. After MLF, I'll transfer back from garage to Cantina, with rest of my demi-johns. Attached are some pictures, kept

 

[Rocktop]

Sorry, not to hijack thread but #NorCal what temp is your wine at to hit those MLF completion times?

RT

 

[franc1969]

Italian / Slovenian here.

When I inoculate MLF, I never test for it, what's the point, just wait 3 months before racking again.

I just had to say hi, because I am Italian / Slovenian myself. No one but the neighbors made wine after my great-grandfathers died, so it's all by trial for me.
Same for me. - Have not tested for MLF at all, keeping my winemaking simple so far. I can see it happening, but haven't worried as long as the carboys are topped up. Mainshipfredgave me leftover lysozyme this weekend to try, but haven't needed it yet on my varietals.

 

[BMarNJ]

@Rocktop , I was just thinking the same thing. When it gets cool here in the fall, but not too cool to put the heat on, my house temps are in the mid to upper 60’s. My MLF stalled. I just moved the wine into a small room with a space heater to warm it up and hope to get it moving again. I co-innoculated, and MLF was about half done after 3 weeks, but no change in these last 3 weeks.