MM Ren. Amarone - First Racking Mess

[robie]

I did my first racking last night at SG 1.000.

It was my first time. It was fun but what a mess I made!!! It is proof positive that experience really counts.

I tried to put the first portion of the rack into a 1.5 liter bottle, just in case the chips and wine would not all fit into the carboy. When the bottle was 3/4 filled, I closed down the hose clamp to shut off the flow of wine. Of course I didn't press hard enough, so the flow didn't stop... my first wine puddle on the floor.

Then, I moved the hose over to the carboy. The oak chips (two packages) in the fermenter clogged the auto siphon rod. Some of the chips were still floating on top, but many of them had sank to the bottom. Before I started siphoning, I scooped out everything on the top but couldn't get to the bunch (about half) on the bottom.

Next, I tried something different, I hooked the hose to the fermenter bucket's spicket. (I think (???) that was how George's video showed to do it, anyway) It got partially clogged, too.

Then.. oh then! you are going to love this... the hose was not forced far enough onto the spicket, so it popped off and slung wine all over the wall and door. When I saw what had happened, it was as though time went into slow motion. O-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-h N-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o! Of course it took a few seconds for me to shut the thing off... yep, nice, well-rounded, puddle of wine on the floor... my second wine puddle.

I spent a good hour and a half cleaning up that mess. Had I not spilled so much, I would have had plenty of wine to fill the carboy, but I ended up loosing about half of a 750 ml bottle of wine. I had to top off with a commercial bottle.

It was a real pain transferring all that wet oak into the carboy. Next time I will wait until racking to add the oak chips. Instructions say to wait until racking, anyway, but since I extended the time in the primary, I went ahead and added the oak chips in there.

Do any of you ever put your oak chips in a bag? I know that would make it harder to get it out of the carboy. How else can one protect the spicket or siphon rod from getting clogged with the submerged chips?

At the next racking from the carboy to another carboy, the bottom of the carboy is going to be filled with oak chips. Should I tie a mesh bag onto the end of the auto siphon?

Even without the hose coming off, I had little red drops and smears all over that room.

I know I will do better next time. Squeeze that hose clamp all the way down and make sure the hose is firmly attached to either the siphon rod or the bucket spicket!!!

Still, it was fun and I'll admit that afterward, I had a good laugh at myself. A real bonding experience with my fermenter.

 

[ibglowin]

Hi Richard,

Trust me, we all have had experiences and stories just like that. The more you do it the better you will get. I had the exact same things happen to me the first few times I racked and now, I can wear a white shirt while racking and its still white when I am done!

Everybody racks slightly differently. On a first racking from primary into secondary with oak chips I would just use the spigot (being careful to make sure it is FULLY inserted like you saw. Use a secondary containment system just in case like a (clean and sanitized) large plastic tub to catch any oops. If the spigot clogs, use your spoon to stir and get rid of any chips that may have clogged up the opening. Sometimes just opening and closing the valve a few times will get it going again. If you cant get it going switch to the siphon racking cane but make sure to lower it slowly into the primary as the wine level goes down so you can avoid the oak sitting on the bottom. Once you get the level down low enough you can slosh the bucket around if necessary to open any clog or use the spoon.

Time and practice will improve your technique I promise!

Also I would get one of the large plastic funnels (with the screen) that you can get from either George or a LHBS. Very invaluable tool to have when oak chips are involved!

 

[Scott]

I'm laughing with you not at you, been there done that.
If I don't make a mess something isn't right.


The 3 other P's
Practice
Practice
Practice

 

[vcasey]

Another trick is to put the racking cane in a straining bag.

 

[robie]

Thanks Mike and vcasey,

That secondary containment container makes a lot of sense, wonder why I didn't think of that? I'll have one next time for sure. Also don't know why I felt I had to jam the siphoning rod all the way down to the bottom...

Yes, seems like a mesh bag on the end of the siphon rod would help, as long as it still lets some of the lees pass through.

Also would like to come up with a large spring clamp, which could be tied to the receiving end's container and hose to keep the hose from popping out on its on. I needed 3 hands to keep everything in place last night.

I also thought about next time tilting the source bucket for awhile before racking, in order to allow much of the chips and lees to drift over to one side. My next kit (CC cab/shiraz) contains oak shavings, which could be worse than the oak chips about getting stuck.

(Sorry Appleman for changing the subject, but I just have to ask Mike about this) Mike, are you a coffee drinker? Ever tried New Mexico Pinon coffee? Here in our office we just got hold of a 2-pound bag of it, just to try something different. Each of us has gone into the boss to find out where in the world he bought it. I can say that I have never had a coffee I liked better than it and I drink a lot of coffee. Apparently it is mixed with the pinon nut.

 

[Pablo]

This thread is worthless without pictures!

We've all done it.

 

[ibglowin]

Hey Richard,

You can get a hose clamp from George or your LHBS that will clip onto your primary and hold the tube in place. You really won't need one when going from bucket into glass and using gravity feed as the small opening is enough to keep it from flopping out.

Yes, I have tried the Pinon coffee! They roast it down in ABQ and pretty much sell it all over the place. You can pick up 2-3lb bags of the stuff at Costo and samsclub. It's pretty darn good for sure!

Thanks Mike and vcasey,That secondary containment container makes a lot of sense, wonder why I didn't think of that?  I'll have one next time for sure.  Also don't know why I felt I had to jam the siphoning rod all the way down to the bottom...Yes, seems like a mesh bag on the end of the siphon rod would help, as long as it still lets some of the lees pass through.Also would like to come up with a large spring clamp, which could be tied to the receiving end's container and hose to keep the hose from popping out on its on.  I needed 3 hands to keep everything in place last night.I also thought about next time tilting the source bucket for awhile before racking, in order to allow much of the chips and lees to drift over to one side.  My next kit (CC cab/shiraz) contains oak shavings, which could be worse than the oak chips about getting stuck.(Sorry Appleman for changing the subject, but I just have to ask Mike about this)  Mike, are you a coffee drinker?  Ever tried New Mexico Pinon coffee?  Here in our office we just got hold of a 2-pound bag of it, just to try something different.   Each of us has gone into the boss to find out where in the world he bought it.  I can say that I have never had a coffee I liked better than it and I drink a lot of coffee.  Apparently it is mixed with the pinon nut.

 

[grapeman]

Well now you have properly been initiated, and you will never forget this!


I use a small screen that goes over the end of the racking cane. It came with one of the kits that had a lot of oak in it- don't recall which one. Alternately, keep the cane off the bottom of the bucket with the clip thingy or if you don't have one that comes with some canes, put a spring clamp on it. When you get near the bottom, tip the bucket while inserting in the opposite side of the bucket. Don't worry if some lees get moved over with it all.


And why do you think I care if you change the subject to coffee- I have a couple pots every day!

 

[robie]

Hi Appleman,

Thanks for the advice. I will need to fix me up one of those spring clamps or go buy one. Such a simple item could have freed up a hand. No wonder on one of George's videos he comments that a wine maker needs three hands.

Also, I had a lot of trouble keeping the auto siphon going. It kept building up a CO2 pocket until it would break the siphon.

Not putting the cane all the way to the bottom, then tilting the bucket - will help greatly. Funny how one's mind just doesn't work logically, when doing something like that for the first time.

Thanks to some good advice and a little (very little) experience, next week I will start my CC cab/shiraz showcase kit, armed with some better technique.

You need to try that coffee - New Mexico Pinon Coffee Company... good stuff, but not what you might think of as a "flavored" coffee, like a vanilla or hazelnut.

 

[ibglowin]

There are only 2 types of rookie wine makers. Those whom have made a complete mess and those who are going to (soon) make a complete mess!

Only 3 ways your racking cane will lose siphon. If you pull it our of your wine accidently, if it plugs with gross lees and oak crud or if your hose is not connected tightly. Usually its a poor hose connection. Make sure your on at least an inch and tightly.

 

[Tom]

When I have either Oak or fruit bits in the primary I put a "hop" bag (or cheese cloth) over the Auto Siphon that goes in the must. Never had a problem.

 

[Wade E]

Check out this site for a great product for using oak in carboy! It i a friend of mines site that runs the Fairfield chapter of the American Wine Society!
http://www.winemakerproducts.com/oak_tubes.htm

 

[robie]

Yep, Mike, it might have been a loose hose. Good thing it didn't come off then, because it was connected above the fermentor, about 5 feet above the floor. Let's see, if we figure the arc it would have made as it fell to the floor, it would have created a really nice 6-foot long arc on the wall..... Nice!

The hose didn't come off until I hooked it to the bottom spicket of the fermentor... only creating a small arc on the wall, but you should have seen the puddle from the spicket.

I will hold you to someday "being able to rack in a white shirt."

Thanks Tepe, I think a mesh bag (or "mess" bag) on the end of the siphon rod will work.

That oak tube looks pretty interesting, Wade. I'm an engineer, so it is my nature to always try to find a better way. I can sometimes over-think otherwise simple things. Ok, I'll admit it, I almost always over-think otherwise simple things

 

[Fly*guy]

Richard .... Mike is right, lessons learned this way are never forgotten

Some additional small equipment and a little more trials and you to can make wine with out fear of shirt color.... at the beginning or the end of the process.

Been workin' this hobby for a bit more than a year and it seems to get easier every time I make something.
A new toy here, another one there, a vacuum pump and some additional carboys and tops... and wallah... I to can do this without a mess, you can as well.
I think these guys know all the tricks, never can thank them enough for there info and wisdom.

Welcome to the forum and the Hobby....

 

[robie]

Your are right; having these gals and guys to ask questions of is invaluable.

Funny you should mention a vacuum pump.

I am working in a fairly small space and one thing that is really a problem for me is trying to lift filled 6 gallon carboys and fermentors. I can see where a vacuum pump and a few special adapters could surely come in handy and might save the old back.

I do have one of the carboy carriers, that is like a harness with two strap handles. It helps, but it's not the solution.

 

[robie]

Last evening I racked my MM Ren. amarone after final fermentation.

I only made a small mess this time, and only because I still haven't installed a clamp on the siphon hose to keep it from sliding out of the receiving carboy.

I am a newbie, so I haven't begun my carboy collection, yet. I only have two carboys right now - one glass and one plastic (Better Bottle).
I racked from the glass to the plastic.

I don't think I will buy anymore plastic carboys. Once it was filled, I inserted the bung and the air lock, which was filled with clean sanitizing solution. I decided to move the bottle over just a little, so I grabbed it by its neck and lifted without disturbing the bung and airlock.

BIG MISTAKE! Lifting the bottle also stretched it, causing it to suck most of the sanitizer solution out of the airlock and into the wine. THEN, when I let go of it, it relaxed and blew what was left of the sanitizer solution out the top.

Word to the wise: never try to move a plastic carboy, even a little ways, with the air lock installed and filled with solution.

Think I'll stick with glass.

I degassed with the drill and stirring rod/blades. I didn't get much visible gas flow, as George did in his demo DVD. I stirred one direction, then the other for a good five minutes.

I tried utilizing the small bottle vacuum pump and still didn't get very much gas to boil up (like George did).

Oh, trying to degas with the little bottle vacuum pump on a plastic carboy - don't bother, it just sucks the sides of the bottle in.

 

[admiral]

Last evening I racked my MM Ren. amarone after final fermentation.

I only made a small mess this time, and only because I still haven't installed a clamp on the siphon hose to keep it from sliding out of the receiving carboy.

I am a newbie, so I haven't begun my carboy collection, yet. I only have two carboys right now - one glass and one plastic (Better Bottle).
I racked from the glass to the plastic.

I don't think I will buy anymore plastic carboys. Once it was filled, I inserted the bung and the air lock, which was filled with clean sanitizing solution. I decided to move the bottle over just a little, so I grabbed it by its neck and lifted without disturbing the bung and airlock.

BIG MISTAKE! Lifting the bottle also stretched it, causing it to suck most of the sanitizer solution out of the airlock and into the wine. THEN, when I let go of it, it relaxed and blew what was left of the sanitizer solution out the top.

Word to the wise: never try to move a plastic carboy, even a little ways, with the air lock installed and filled with solution.

Think I'll stick with glass.

I degassed with the drill and stirring rod/blades. I didn't get much visible gas flow, as George did in his demo DVD. I stirred one direction, then the other for a good five minutes.

I tried utilizing the small bottle vacuum pump and still didn't get very much gas to boil up (like George did).

Oh, trying to degas with the little bottle vacuum pump on a plastic carboy - don't bother, it just sucks the sides of the bottle in.

Been there, done that!

 

[rrawhide]

me too!!!!

I'm glad that we can all laugh at ourselves.

ps: i do it alot!!!

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