WineXpert Montepulciano..a little stinky

[ptk]

This thing smells like sulfur. Should I worry?

 

[grapeman]

Give it a good stir and maybe add some yeast nutrient and possibly energizer. SOunds like the yeast is stressed. Those things will help it.


A bit more information would be helpful with a diagnosis. What would your doctor do if you went there and said I don't feel good?

 

[ptk]

yep. it is a wine expert multipulciano and everything looked good. I prestarted the yeast and they were very very active before adding them to the must. I did add some organic raisins to the must. It is still popping and crackling from fermentation and it is making a good amount of gas. It has a brew belt and the temp is 72 degres F. The smell is not all that unpleasant. A blizzard is about to hit later this morning so I will call the worms way and see if they are going to be open this morning. If so I will get some yeast helpers. If not I will just stir and hope.

 

[Dean]

hmmmmmmmm, pre-starting the yeast? Was the yeast slurry at the exact same temp as the liquid must? If not, that can stress the yeast and actually cause quite a bit of colony kill, due to temperature shock. Also, is your temperature of the must at a constant? It should rise a bit on its own due to exothermic reactions of the yeast, but the temperature should never go down until fermentation is actually finished. Many of us do turn down the thermostat at night, and if your fermenter is not insulated, that too can cause stress on the yeast.

I see you are using a brew-belt and that's a great start. It's possible that the raisins could be causing the smell too. Some raisins are sprayed with inhibitors that can affect the yeast, and sometimes they are also coated in oil to stop them from becoming one big clump. What brand of raisins did you choose?

Do give it a really good stir and the outgassing of the CO2 should drive off the H2S (The stinky stuff). A good dose of oxygen might also help your yeast build stronger cell walls too if you are still early in fermentation.

I'm curious as to why you chose to rehydrate the yeast vs sprinkling on for a kit?

 

[Bartman]

Dean,
I don't know about the WE kits, but the MM instructions recommend following the directions on the yeast package. The Lalvin standard yeast tells you to pour the yeast into a 1/4 cup of warm, "not hot" water, and wait 15 minutes before adding to the must.

For what it's worth, I have noticed no appreciable difference between sprinkling on the yeast or pre-starting the yeast, but I have no issues with ambient fermenting temperatures.

 

[ptk]

I did not take the temperature to compare but I think they were pretty close together and the yeast was really going well. It was about to overvlow my container. The whole thing seems really active. Snapping and crackling and making co2. I used the degasser and the drill to whip some air into the must. It might be working. I used whole foods flame raisins and boiled them for about 5 minutes to make sure they were steralized.

 

[ibglowin]

Well I suppose that should take out any possibility of problems with the raisins....

I made the MM Renaissance Nero D' Avola, added one pound of organic flame red raisins from Whole Foods and dumped them in with out any pretreatment. No problems.

What yeast did this kit come with?Some strains of yeast are more prone to production of H2S than others.

I used whole foods flame raisins and boiled them for about 5 minutes to make sure they were steralized. 

 

[robie]

Sounds like you needed some good old air (oxygen) stirred in, especially if it was really active at first. I have had more trouble with H2S when the fermentations were extremely active. It's like the yeast blow though all the oxygen too quickly.

Since you stirred in some oxygen, it should get better smelling. Keep stirring it each day until it is time to rack to secondary. Don't stir in oxygen in secondary.

 

[ptk]

Sounds like you needed some good old air (oxygen) stirred in, especially if it was really active at first. I have had more trouble with H2S when the fermentations were extremely active. It's like the yeast blow though all the oxygen too quickly.

Since you stirred in some oxygen, it should get better smelling. Keep stirring it each day until it is time to rack to secondary. Don't stir in oxygen in secondary.

You mightbe on to something. I whipped air into the must this afternoon and it is roaring! It also smells a little better too. I am going to take it off the brew belt and let the temp fall down into the upper 60's I am also going to whip more air in each day. Thoughts?

 

[v1rotate]

You mightbe on to something. I whipped air into the must this afternoon and it is roaring! It also smells a little better too. I am going to take it off the brew belt and let the temp fall down into the upper 60's I am also going to whip more air in each day. Thoughts?

I think it is best to keep the must in the low to mid 70's until you are ready to stabilize. Large temp swings during fermentation must be hard on the yeast.

 

[ptk]

Can the yeast be too active? Out of your 60 kit, do you have a hall of fame or dream team so to speak? I am thinking for my next I wan to do the MM Barolo with grape pack!

 

[Dean]

Yeast can't be too active

@Bart, Winexpert recommends the sprinkling method.

I do realize that yeast companies state to rehydrate because that is the only way that they can guarantee the results of the yeast. However, Winexpert, RJS, Cellar Craft, Vineco, and others have done studies on the rehydration of yeast vs the sprinkling method, and found that if you are off by even as little as 5 degrees between must temp and yeast liquid temp, you can cause up to 1/2 of the colony that are awake to die due to temperature shock. I'm sure that number potentially gets greater the more the temperature range differs.
If you sprinkle, the yeast, will start a little slower, but will raise the colony count to a much higher level quicker.

In this case, it sounds like it was a lack of oxygen that was causing undue stress. I'm not sure of the yeast in that particular kit, but if it was EC-1118, H2S is usually almost non-existent. However, this sounds like the yeast might have been RC212, which Winexpert uses sometimes, which is very prone to H2S. I'm just glad the OP seems to have caught and fixed the issue quickly.

 

[v1rotate]

Out of your 60 kit, do you have a hall of fame or dream team so to speak? I am thinking for my next I wan to do the MM Barolo with grape pack!

Let's see, hall of fame. SWMMBO and my favorites have been the CC Red Mountain Cab, WE Estate Lodi Cab/Sonoma Pinot Noir and WE Original Luna Rossa. As a group I would say the CC Showcase kits have tasted best at 1 year. That is quite a caveat, though, since 6 week kits seem to need 2 to 3 years to fully develop. I've only been making kit wines for a bit over 2 1/2 years and my oldest wines were gassy when bottled making them difficult to judge. I went through the Estate Series reds of WE fairly early on and didn't degas any of them adequately. I suspect they are excellent when made properly and allowed to age 18 months.

Which Barolo are you making? I'd love to taste the Meglioli with some age on it. I have the BB AJ Barolo going now, no grape pack. I'll report back in 18 months...

 

[robie]

I can't say how good it is, because I just received my MM Barolo kit from George. I am looking forward to making it, though. I have heard nothing but good about this kit. I especially like that they now have grape packs available and not just raisin packs.

Just be aware that this kit is going to need 2 or more years of age to really shine. If you can't wait that long, bottle 8 to 10 of the smaller 375 ml bottles as testers. This way you can taste every few months but still have something left in 2 years.

Earlier, you mentioned getting your fermentation temperature down into the 60's F. With kits, reds especially, and inexperience, that might not be a good idea. As already mentioned, keep the temperature in the mid-to-upper 70's F.

When you degas, I can tell you from experience that if the temperature is below about 75F, you will have a challenge getting the CO2 out.

Good luck.

 

[ptk]

I started my clearing process yesterday. The wine seemed ok. Perhaps a super tiny wiff of sulfur but hardly anything at all. I am really sensitive given the past of this wine kit. I put in the fining agents according to the instructions. Tonight there is a thick matt of something floating on top. It has a smell of bananas. Not unpleasant but strange. Thoughts?

 

[jnmar]

Banana pudding is good stuff.

 

[ptk]

yea it is like floating red banana pudding

 

[Dean]

usually, that's an indication that it's not anywhere near degassed enough. The solids should be dropping, but the residual CO2 is keeping it suspended on the top. It happens to all of us. Make sure the liquid temp is 75F or higher, then degas again. It will sink after that.

You might have to siphon some wine out if you've topped up already.

 

[ptk]

It could be on the cool side but i went after it with the drill and nearly wore out a battery! I will say that there did not appear to be much gas comming off it. Is just seemed flat. I know i whipped a fair amount of air in it. I will give it some time and put the brew belt on and whip it some more.

 

[Dean]

If the wine is too cool, you can whip with the drill all you want, but the CO2 will stay in solution. Warm it up and try it again. You'll see quite the difference.