New Barrel(s)

[Johnd]

Nice stand I'm thinking about making one similar but adding some casters. What size did you make it, what type or oak did you use looks like 1x 12"? & 1x4"

When I make barrel stands, I always make the stand as wide and as deep as the head hoop diameter. IIRC, this one has a head hoop diameter of 18", so the stand was 18" wide and 18" deep. The lumber is premium red oak, 1x10 and 1x4. When cutting out the curves, a radius that is around 1" smaller than the barrel head radius is used, that way the barrel always rests on the haunches and doesn't rock.

 

[Mac60]

When I make barrel stands, I always make the stand as wide and as deep as the head hoop diameter. IIRC, this one has a head hoop diameter of 18", so the stand was 18" wide and 18" deep. The lumber is premium red oak, 1x10 and 1x4. When cutting out the curves, a radius that is around 1" smaller than the barrel head radius is used, that way the barrel always rests on the haunches and doesn't rock.

Thanks John, always great info.
Mike

 

[Mac60]

When I make barrel stands, I always make the stand as wide and as deep as the head hoop diameter. IIRC, this one has a head hoop diameter of 18", so the stand was 18" wide and 18" deep. The lumber is premium red oak, 1x10 and 1x4. When cutting out the curves, a radius that is around 1" smaller than the barrel head radius is used, that way the barrel always rests on the haunches and doesn't rock.

John, Thanks for your tip on your barrel stand, I just finished mine and added casters, makes it real easy for me to roll it out to clean and rack.

 

[Boatboy24]

Looks really nice, Mac. Great wine room too!!

 

[Johnd]

John, Thanks for your tip on your barrel stand, I just finished mine and added casters, makes it real easy for me to roll it out to clean and rack.View attachment 44538

Looks like it came out great, nice work!!!

 

[Mac60]

Looks really nice, Mac. Great wine room too!!

Thanks Jim

Looks like it came out great, nice work!!!

Thanks John

 

[mainshipfred]

Maybe one day I'll sit down and do the surface area to volume calculation for the 23 and 40, but I'm sure you're right, not a linear relationship.

Had the same experience with all three of my 23's, leakfree til you put red wine in. No biggie, lasted a few weeks and a little mist of KMS sanitizing solution removes the stains almost immediately.

Yes, that's my general time line in the 23L, 1 month, 2 months, etc. all the way up to 6 months. By the time you hit the end of your first 6 month wine, the barrel is 21 months old and approaching neutral, then I'll start adding wine stix. This is all taste dependent, of course, and it does pull back over time.

@Johnd, you help me all the time. I tried to find barrel sizes to do the calc for you but couldn't find anything. All I found was this link that I think should be pretty accurate. Also, I looked at the Saint Matrin barrels and couldn't find a 40l but they do look like quality barrels.

https://rechneronline.de/pi/barrel.php

 

[Johnd]

@Johnd, you help me all the time. I tried to find barrel sizes to do the calc for you but couldn't find anything. All I found was this link that I think should be pretty accurate. Also, I looked at the Saint Matrin barrels and couldn't find a 40l but they do look like quality barrels.

https://rechneronline.de/pi/barrel.php

Thanks Fred, good info! I’ve never seen the St. Martins in anything under 30 gallons, but I didn’t look a lot. Wanting to use a good French barrel, just bought enough grapes to fill one.....

 

[mainshipfred]

Thanks Fred, good info! I’ve never seen the St. Martins in anything under 30 gallons, but I didn’t look a lot. Wanting to use a good French barrel, just bought enough grapes to fill one.....

When I went back and looked it gives volume and not surface area which is what I googled. So no help at all. Heck, I thought I did something for you.

 

[stickman]

I was playing around with the concept a few years ago and generated this very rough relationship. It is just using an average diameter to get the volume and calculating surface area as a cylinder. Close enough for my work at the time; I'm not sure it is worth going much further.
I made a correction, I only had one barrel head in the first calculation.

 

[sour_grapes]

Nice work, Stick!
As a physicist, I would have simplified even further, just saying that the surface-area-to-volume ratio scales as the cube root of the volume from dimensional analysis. (This is equivalent, I suppose, to modeling the barrel as a sphere.) I just ran those numbers to compare to your nice table, and my answers were within a few percent of yours. (The biggest deviation was for the 10-gallon barrel, and it was about 5%; e.g., I estimated 1.80 for the 10-gallon, compared to your 1.72.)

 

[mainshipfred]

View attachment 44554

I was playing around with the concept a few years ago and generated this very rough relationship. It is just using an average diameter to get the volume and calculating surface area as a cylinder. Close enough for my work at the time; I'm not sure it is worth going much further.

Cool calcs, I'm coming up with a little different numbers but I'm just guessing the area of the heads which I think is the difference.

 

[Ajmassa]

Crazy question. I'm positive I've seen this in more than a 1 video too. Why not take your neutral barells apart and re-toast em? It's something not only saving $ but also fun and interesting.
And after 1 or 2 maybe you get a half decent routine down?
I don't have any barrels...yet. So I'm naive. Is this a ridiculous thought?

 

[mainshipfred]

I wouldn't have a problem trying it, I figure after 4 or 5 years you already got your moneys worth and you only have to take apart one side. My first barrel leaked when I first got it and I just ground a cold chisel flat and worked my way around the barrel tightening the hoops. Worked like a charm.

 

[Johnd]

Crazy question. I'm positive I've seen this in more than a 1 video too. Why not take your neutral barells apart and re-toast em? It's something not only saving $ but also fun and interesting.
And after 1 or 2 maybe you get a half decent routine down?
I don't have any barrels...yet. So I'm naive. Is this a ridiculous thought?

It’s done all of the time, number the parts, disassemble, plane the staves down to clean wood, toast, and reassemble. You can also buy recooped barrels at a discount.

 

[mainshipfred]

It’s done all of the time, number the parts, disassemble, plane the staves down to clean wood, toast, and reassemble. You can also buy recooped barrels at a discount.

I've been for recooped but can only find them in large barrels. I would think it would be hard to plane, sanding would be my guess.

 

[Johnd]

I've been for recooped but can only find them in large barrels. I would think it would be hard to plane, sanding would be my guess.

I’d suspect that the vast majority of recooped would be of a larger size.

As for the method of removing “used” wood to get to the new stuff, there are surely a number of ways to accomplish the task, by hand or with machines. If I were going to attack a few barrels, one of these planers would be on my list of equipment. The front and back guides adjust from concave to convex, to the desired curvature of the wood, the motor and rotary cutting head does the rest.

 

[Ajmassa]

Just Saw a video where barrel was disassembled and a couple passes with belt sander with rough grit paper did the trick.
Wondering if just the heads could be removed and sanded while still together.
I found a small 5 gal on Craigslist for $50 slightly used for sour beer

 

[Boatboy24]

J
I found a small 5 gal on Craigslist for $50 slightly used for sour beer

Isn't sour beer made by adding Brett? I wouldn't put my wine in that.

 

[Ajmassa]

Isn't sour beer made by adding Brett? I wouldn't put my wine in that.

That's why I put that out there. I was unsure if this could work. Everything I found says the other way- used wine barrels for sour beer-- can be ideal. But nothing for the opposite.
Just did a quick sour beer search and you are 100% correct. So that's a big nay no on the barrel- Thanks