Finer Wine Kit New Limited Edition Kits Drop

[ratflinger]

Combo of vacuum juice and fresh juice with the crush skins included, only a 3-gal kit though.

https://labelpeelers.com/finer-wine-kits-ultima-series-limited-edition/?mc_cid=8b93eb9e68

 

[DavesWine]

Just my first thought after looking at these ... how are they any different from the forte or tavola kits other than you get the actual grape skins from the pressing?

 

[Shemagra]

I picked up a Syrah and a Merlot to blend.

 

[ratflinger]

Supposedly there is fresh grape juice also.

 

[szap]

Wow! That's getting to $10 a bottle for kit wine.

 

[Brant]

Yeah, for me these high end kits are a little too expensive to play around with.

The juice isn't worth the squeeze (pun intended).

 

[winemaker81]

I am a beta tester for this kit and my notes, which Matt P said I could publish, are here:

https://wine.bkfazekas.com/2023-zinfandel/

This kit is higher end, with enough additions that it has to be a 3 gallon kit, as a 6 gallon kit won't fit in a 7.9 gallon fermenter. I fermented 2 of the kits together in a 20 gallon Brute. In addition to the normal dried skin packs, each kit has a large "wet" skin pack. There's a picture in my notes.

The notes were written for Matt, and are a cross between my normal terse notes and my Wines ... In Detail blogs.

The beta kits were high ABV -- Matt said feedback from me and other testers (no idea who they are) was that the kits were too hot, so the production version is around 14% instead of 16%. I will be bottling in the near future, and I expect the wine will require long aging, due to the depth and the high ABV. My guess is the production kits will need at least 2 years of aging.

These kits are not quick drinkers.

 

[Gilmango]

Yeah, for me these high end kits are a little too expensive to play around with.

The juice isn't worth the squeeze (pun intended).

My reaction as well. I like the premium additions - fresh juice and same-varietal wet skins - which were added to their already premium concentrate, dry skins, and seeds plus nice yeast, yeast stater with nutrient, etc. But it winds up costing nearly as much as a 6 gallon kit, for a 3 gallon limited edition kit.

 

[joeswine]

Getting cheaper and better just to learn how to tweak, these limited additions kits are nuts in cost , doesn’t matter who’s brand at this points

 

[bstnh1]

Not gonna she'll out $10-$11 a bottle for homemade wine when a $2.50 - $3 a bottle satisfies me.

 

[Brant]

Until I cannot find decent wines for under $20/bottle, there is zero chance I ever purchase a kit at this price point.

After shipping for me it's well over $12/bottle if two kits yield 30 bottles which is best case. This doesn't include my time, equipment, top-off wine, etc.

I have made a couple wines that have stood up against some OK commercial bottles but if I'm being 100% honest, they are still mediocre to decent at best. I can find countless $10 to $15 bottles that far exceed anything I've been able to make. I'm sure my skills are not honed to the sharpness that many on this forum are, but regardless of ability, you cannot make a silk purse from a sows ear. Regardless of kit quality, it's likely that kits will never quite stand-up consistently to wine from fresh grapes. I just don't believe it's achievable on a regular basis. Maybe these kits will prove me wrong- I'm skeptical though.

That being said, I don't believe that most (or any) of us buy kits to save money. We do it because it's fun to make something we love. We do it because we have a passion for wine making that exceeds reason. So if this is you, and you can justify the entry fee, I say go for it. I hope you make your best wine yet!

 

[winemaker81]

That being said, I don't believe that most (or any) of us buy kits to save money.

You're wrong on this point, as we have numerous members who specifically make their own wine to save money. Read the Tweaking Cheap Kits thread from the beginning, and also look at the new members forum. Check the Country Wines forum -- a lot of members make only that which they can forage, some simply because they can, and other for cost reasons.

Some folks make kits because it's all that is available to them. I switched to kits in the mid-90's because the grapes I could get were low quality.

Some folks have access to grapes but don't have tools such as crushers and presses. Those are expensive items which have to be stored the 11.5 months of the year they're not in use.

There are more reasons for winemaking than there are active members on this forum.

I have made a couple wines that have stood up against some OK commercial bottles but if I'm being 100% honest, they are still mediocre to decent at best. I can find countless $10 to $15 bottles that far exceed anything I've been able to make. I'm sure my skills are not honed to the sharpness that many on this forum are, but regardless of ability, you cannot make a silk purse from a sows ear. Regardless of kit quality, it's likely that kits will never quite stand-up consistently to wine from fresh grapes. I just don't believe it's achievable on a regular basis. Maybe these kits will prove me wrong- I'm skeptical though.

Emphasis mine. It's not a fair comparison. You make 1 wine and you're comparing it to potentially hundreds or even thousands of wines. I can easily find a dozen wines that will beat my best.

Are you fairly judging your own wine, or are you being your own worst critic? Make sure you're being fair to yourself.

[This is coming from a guy who has to watch his self criticism.]

That said, kit quality makes a significant difference. The kits I purchased in the 90's and 00's were FAR below today's kits in quality. I think the Wine-Art kits were about 3/4 gallon concentrate -- the boxes were tiny compared to today's low end kits.

The WE Reserve kits I made for my son's wedding reception compared well to $8 to $15 USD wines. I barrel aged a FWK Forte Super Tuscan for a year, and you'd not know it's a kit.

Which raises the point that winemaking technique matters greatly. Comparing a kit wine that was aged on oak cubes to a commercial wine that was 30% to 100% barrel aged is an unfair comparison.

Is the new FWK worth the price? I 'spose that's a personal decision.

 

[joeswine]

It’s all subjective to one’s taste, skills in the process, where and what you making and TIME to develop, all the above.
Some were good , some were excellent but I never had a bad batch of kit wines .
If you broke down the process it’s not that all that much different.
Just my thoughts

 

[joeswine]

It that’s time

 

[joeswine]

The product x the process = finished product.
Your skills , tools and space govern everything ….

 

[joeswine]

Yeah, for me these high end kits are a little too expensive to play around with.

The juice isn't worth the squeeze (pun intended).

And getting more expensive. There going to put there selves out of business,

 

[Jovimaple]

Combo of vacuum juice and fresh juice with the crush skins included, only a 3-gal kit though.

https://labelpeelers.com/finer-wine-kits-ultima-series-limited-edition/?mc_cid=8b93eb9e68

Plus there's the additional discount if you're an early adopter!

 

[Tripled92]

You're wrong on this point, as we have numerous members who specifically make their own wine to save money. Read the Tweaking Cheap Kits thread from the beginning, and also look at the new members forum. Check the Country Wines forum -- a lot of members make only that which they can forage, some simply because they can, and other for cost reasons.

Some folks make kits because it's all that is available to them. I switched to kits in the mid-90's because the grapes I could get were low quality.

Some folks have access to grapes but don't have tools such as crushers and presses. Those are expensive items which have to be stored the 11.5 months of the year they're not in use.

There are more reasons for winemaking than there are active members on this forum.


Emphasis mine. It's not a fair comparison. You make 1 wine and you're comparing it to potentially hundreds or even thousands of wines. I can easily find a dozen wines that will beat my best.

Are you fairly judging your own wine, or are you being your own worst critic? Make sure you're being fair to yourself.

[This is coming from a guy who has to watch his self criticism.]

That said, kit quality makes a significant difference. The kits I purchased in the 90's and 00's were FAR below today's kits in quality. I think the Wine-Art kits were about 3/4 gallon concentrate -- the boxes were tiny compared to today's low end kits.

The WE Reserve kits I made for my son's wedding reception compared well to $8 to $15 USD wines. I barrel aged a FWK Forte Super Tuscan for a year, and you'd not know it's a kit.

Which raises the point that winemaking technique matters greatly. Comparing a kit wine that was aged on oak cubes to a commercial wine that was 30% to 100% barrel aged is an unfair comparison.

Is the new FWK worth the price? I 'spose that's a personal decision.

Man I agree 100%. I have to totally disagree Brant to the fullest. Our first classic WE Cabernet we made (before we even knew what we were doing) beats out any commerical Cabernet in the $40-$60 range.

The issue when people say stuff like that is they don’t understand the backend process of what’s really going on and what organic actually taste like. If you grew up on commercial wines that’s all you are going to like. Prime example is syrup, we all love the store brand syrup because that’s all we know, but it’s so different compared to organic syrup. Same convo can be made with real ketchup vs commerical ketchup. Majority Commerical wines are made with flavoring and use of spoiled grapes (mega purple to cover it up) if you disagree than you never dealt with an honest comercial wine maker.

 

[Tripled92]

Man I agree 100%. I have to totally disagree Brant to the fullest. Our first classic WE Cabernet we made (before we even knew what we were doing) beats out any commerical Cabernet in the $40-$60 range.

The issue when people say stuff like that is they don’t understand the backend process of what’s really going on and what organic actually taste like. If you grew up on commercial wines that’s all you are going to like. Prime example is syrup, we all love the store brand syrup because that’s all we know, but it’s so different compared to organic syrup. Same convo can be made with real ketchup vs commerical ketchup. Majority Commerical wines are made with flavoring and use of spoiled grapes (mega purple to cover it up) if you disagree than you never dealt with an honest comercial wine maker.

Just recently we made a Merlot (upgraded everything ) and then we tried a $60 dollar Merlot from Napa that aged 13 years. And i bet all the money in the world if you blind tasted them you would pick our Merlot every single time.

Let me explain the difference as to why this is true. Take for example dress shoes like Cole Haan. Cole Haan makes amazing dress shoes, but it will never ever beat a hand crafted dress shoe. Why? Because Cole Haan has to produce 1000s of dress shoes and can’t just focus on one. Individually, yes , Cole Haan could make 1 dress shoe that would be better than a hand crafted one but that’s not the case.

 

[szap]

Until I cannot find decent wines for under $20/bottle, there is zero chance I ever purchase a kit at this price point.

After shipping for me it's well over $12/bottle if two kits yield 30 bottles which is best case. This doesn't include my time, equipment, top-off wine, etc.

I have made a couple wines that have stood up against some OK commercial bottles but if I'm being 100% honest, they are still mediocre to decent at best. I can find countless $10 to $15 bottles that far exceed anything I've been able to make. I'm sure my skills are not honed to the sharpness that many on this forum are, but regardless of ability, you cannot make a silk purse from a sows ear. Regardless of kit quality, it's likely that kits will never quite stand-up consistently to wine from fresh grapes. I just don't believe it's achievable on a regular basis. Maybe these kits will prove me wrong- I'm skeptical though.

That being said, I don't believe that most (or any) of us buy kits to save money. We do it because it's fun to make something we love. We do it because we have a passion for wine making that exceeds reason. So if this is you, and you can justify the entry fee, I say go for it. I hope you make your best wine yet!

Just curious, have you done any blind taste tests with others comparing the excellent $10 - $15 wines to one of your kit wines?