Next Steps

[MikeC]

Since this is my first batch of wine I'd like to make sure I understand fully the next couple of steps.


I have it in the primary and it's fermenting. I did have a little trouble with the brew belt keeping it too warm-this morning it was up to 77.2 degrees so I've unplugged the brew belt. The room temperature is about 68 so it should help cool it down some.


I have the primary sittingon a table, so I assume that since it's not on the cold floor I may not need to use the brew belt-at least during primary fermentation.


Now I wait for a few days then test the gravity with the hydrometer again, right? Once it reaches the SG level recommended in the instructions it's time to rack it into the carboy, correct? Will it hurt to leave it in the primary a couple extra days or is the timing for getting it into the carboy and starting secondary fermentation critical?


It's bubbling (fizzing)pretty good right now but I understand that once it gets close to the correct time the bubbling will slow down or stop. Once the SG is reached, will there be any bubbling, and if so is it OK to rack it into the carboy even though it's still bubbling?


Thanks for the help! I just want to make sure I understand what to look for and know what's flexible on the timing.

 

[Coaster]

Now I wait for a few days then test the gravity with the hydrometer again, right? Once it reaches the SG level recommended in the instructions it's time to rack it into the carboy, correct? Will it hurt to leave it in the primary a couple extra days or is the timing for getting it into the carboy and starting secondary fermentation critical?


It's bubbling (fizzing)pretty good right now but I understand that once it gets close to the correct time the bubbling will slow down or stop. Once the SG is reached, will there be any bubbling, and if so is it OK to rack it into the carboy even though it's still bubbling?


Thanks for the help! I just want to make sure I understand what to look for and know what's flexible on the timing.

Yes, wait a few days and check again. I've started several kits and for me it takes about 48 hours for the real bubbling to begin, then 3 more days until I am in the target range. On my first kits I checked every day but I have a better feeling for them now. I tend to rackaround 1.030.I'd rather rack sooner than later (just at this stage). The vigorous fermentation is usually done and it's better to get it under air lock while it's still fermenting in order to create the CO2 cap. It's my opinion that this racking is the most time (I should say SG)sensitive of all the rackings.


You definitely want to rack while it's still fermenting, the escaping CO2 will create the cap on the wine to prevent oxidation in the carboy. All my kits tell me not to top up at this point so there is a large amount of surface area exposed. The CO2 is heavier than air so it will sit on the wine and blanket it. It's at the point in the process where the magic of making wine become hypnotic, you'll find your self watching bubbles, listening to them, counting them - several times a day.

Edited by: Coaster

 

[masta]

At 68 degree room temp I would say there is no need to check your SG until at least day 5 and most likely day 6-7 would be below the 1.010 target for transferring to the secondary. I don't even think about moving my batches until day 7 and my room is 70-72 degrees.


One thing to remember is that the fermentation is exothermic so the temperature of the batch will rise up to 10 degrees higher than the room temp during the vigorous 2 or 3 days part of the fermentation and is normal and not a problem.



Edited by: masta

 

[docbee]

Now I wait for a few days then test the gravity with the hydrometer again, right? Once it reaches the SG level recommended in the instructions it's time to rack it into the carboy, correct? Will it hurt to leave it in the primary a couple extra days or is the timing for getting it into the carboy and starting secondary fermentation critical?


It's bubbling (fizzing)pretty good right now but I understand that once it gets close to the correct time the bubbling will slow down or stop. Once the SG is reached, will there be any bubbling, and if so is it OK to rack it into the carboy even though it's still bubbling?


Thanks for the help! I just want to make sure I understand what to look for and know what's flexible on the timing.

I would think that it would be better to rack 1 day earlier than couple days later for the reasons that Coaster stated. Yes the bubbling slows down a "little" at this point, but not that noticeable unless you had a vigourous fermentation at the beginning. Rely on your SG readings, because every batch will be different rates of fermentation. So the bubbling won't give you enough info on. My first batch I racked at the recommended SG and then never saw another bubbling, but 10 days later the SG was down to 0.994. So obvious there was some fermentating going on, I just never saw the "bubbles"

 

[MikeC]

Thanks for the great responses. As usual, the information was exactly what I needed.

 

[Wade E]

What kit are you doing? Just so you know, keeping the brew belt up at
the top will lower the temp, putting it close to the bottom will raise
the temp.

 

[PeterZ]

I don't think that the head space in the primary is too critical as far as O2 contamination is concerned. RJS doesn't seem too worried about it, either, since their instructions now call for fermenting to dryness in the primary. (More on my thoughts about why RJS changed their instructions later.)

As any of us who has had (or seen pictures of) a volcano at degassing knows, there is a lot of CO2 in the wine. In fact, a wine that has fermented to dryness within the last month is massively supersaturated with CO2. Left long enough under an airlock, the wine will degasson its own, but for 6 gallons sending all the gas through a 2" circle of surface (in a carboy) that takes a really long time. Even in a primary the depth is greater than the diameter, so degassing (a function of surface area vs. depth) will take quite a while.

What does this mean to us? Any liquid will eventually come to equilibrium with the gas it is in contact with. The operative word is "eventually." As long as the wine is supersaturated with CO2, the CO2 in supersaturation is preventing any atmospheric gas (which is 70% N2, and inert) from entering. O2 is being overpowered by CO2 in much the same way as bad yeast is being overpowered by the vigorous activity of the good yeast during fermentation. What little (very little) O2 that enters the wine is more than controlled by the SO2 in the wine at this stage.

Back to RJS. If I had to make a guess, and this is only a guess, they decided that, by eliminating one racking, the risk of bacterial contamination from poor sanitization was greater than the risk of oxidation during the last stages of fermentation. If that is their reason, I agree.

And thus ends the third installment of CYRDGASA.

 

[Wade E]

Peter, whatever the reason RJS has done this, This was the easiest degassing Ive ever done!

 

[MikeC]

What kit are you doing? Just so you know, keeping the brew belt up at the top will lower the temp, putting it close to the bottom will raise the temp.

I'm doing the Vintners Reserve Merlot. I figured the Merlot was a pretty safe bet for taste on my first one, and the instructions for Vintners Reserve seemed pretty foolproof.

 

[Coaster]

"Back to RJS. If I had to make a guess, and this is only a guess, they decided that, by eliminating one racking, the risk of bacterial contamination from poor sanitization was greater than the risk of oxidation during the last stages of fermentation. If that is their reason, I agree."





I read that they did in order to facilitate the degassing. They have it under airlock, if I remember the discussion, so no oxidation can occur. Once feremntation is done, it's racked to a carboy and the degassing is much easier.

 

[Wade E]

I think Masta discussed this a little while back and i believe that is
what he said also. Let me tell you that I am going to try this again
with a scratch wine to see if it works as well as with their kit, it
worked that well!

 

[masta]

The reason RJS changed their procedure was driven byswitching to Super Kleer as their fining agent. Using this product requires the wine to be fully and completely degassed for effectiveness and they found doing the complete fermentation in the primary with a sealed lid and airlock for 14 dayshelps the degassing step. Edited by: masta

 

[Wade E]

Man did it ever!