Non-Saccharomyces Yeast - First Impressions

[4score]

First impressions of using Non-Saccharomyces yeast: We used a strain called Prelude from CHR HANSEN. Prelude is a pure strain of Torulaspora delbrueckii to be used in combination with your Saccharomyces cerevisiae strain of choice. This non-Saccharomyces yeast strain has been carefully selected to mimic successful wild ferments, increase aromatic complexity, enhance fresh fruit-forward wines, and develop a round mouthfeel. For wines fermented or aged in oak, Prelude bridges the gap between yeast derived compounds and oak flavors.
This specialty yeast is not intended to achieve complete alcoholic fermentation but to enhance wine complexity. Prelude has to be followed by a Saccharomyces cerevisiae yeast of choice to achieve a safe and fast alcoholic fermentation.
We did two bins (1000 lbs each) of local Cab Franc. One bin used Prelude, followed by Avante yeast while the other bin used only traditional Avante yeast. The first thing we noticed was the incredible fermentation aromas coming from the Prelude bin. So much more fruity in comparison! Next observation was the time to complete fermentation. In our northern California location, we get hot early Fall temps and our fermentations last only 4 days usually. Using Prelude for the 1st 4 brix drop then using Avante, resulted in nearly a two-week fermentation and temps reaching a high of about 86 degrees. The traditional bin of Avante only yeast finished in 4.5 days and topped out with a 95 degree high! After pressing, we were AMAZED by the Prelude wine taste and aroma! We've made a LOT of wine since 2013 and several people commented that the Prelude just-pressed wine was the absolute BEST ever at this stage. It truly was already complex and the mouthfeel was heavier. The Avante was good and more of a predictable average for just-pressed wine. Finally, we took a carboy of each and compared the color (see picture). Oddly enough, the lighter wine on the right is the Prelude. I would have thought that it would be the darker one since the skins spent so much more contact time. Another theory is that the Prelude wine has a lower ABV thus contributing to a lighter color.
All in all, at this stage I am very happy with the result. I can't wait to continued monitoring as these two wines mature. So far, I am a believer of non-saccharomyces yeast!

 

[pgentile]

I read about these non-sacc yeasts from CHR HANSEN when you mentioned them several months ago. Interesting to hear the differences are that noticeable between batches. Wish they sold these in smaller quantities.

 

[stickman]

Maybe the darker color is from the higher peak temperature. I have also read that color often peaks between 5 and 8 days on the skins and then starts to drop back during longer maceration, though I haven't done any comparisons.

 

[Ajmassa]

Thanks for sharing this. It’s extremely
interesting.

Could you do us a favor and elaborate a little bit regarding the timeline and fill in some blanks?
Did you let the Perlude go for over a week dropping only 4 Brix?Once the Avante took over was it back to business and finished in a few days? And Was 4 Brix the plan?
And when I’m innoculating Avante was there any extra steps involved to help it take over the ferment?

Thanks man

 

[CK55]

That yeast is also used in beer fementation, as a brewer i have used it before, white labs also offers cultures of it.

 

[pgentile]

That yeast is also used in beer fementation, as a brewer i have used it before, white labs also offers cultures of it.

Very interesting, you are correct the strain used on Prelude is the same as used in White Labs WLP603 for specialty/belgian beers/etc

https://www.gusmerwine.com/catalog/chr-hansen-yeast/prelude/

"Viniflora® Prelude™ is a pure strain of Torulaspora delbrueckii "

https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-bank/wlp603-torulaspora-delbrueckii

The White Labs product is only $9, but it seems out of stock the few places it's available

 

[CK55]

Very interesting, you are correct the strain used on Prelude is the same as used in White Labs WLP603 for specialty/belgian beers/etc

https://www.gusmerwine.com/catalog/chr-hansen-yeast/prelude/

"Viniflora® Prelude™ is a pure strain of Torulaspora delbrueckii "

https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-bank/wlp603-torulaspora-delbrueckii

The White Labs product is only $9, but it seems out of stock the few places it's available

Yeah, I brew beer and make wine, it was sort of a natural progression to move from beer into wine. But I do still brew. One of my specialties is belgian, and or european dark lagers such as vienna lagers, real vienna lagers not that crap they make in mexico thats sort of a descendant of it.

I have had issues getting it. I get a lot of the rarer yeasts from my contact at Imperial Yeast in Oregon.

 

[NorCal]

The Prelude dropped brix from 26 to 22, before the Avante was added. The Prelude continued until being crowded out or hitting the alcohol limit, but say it consumed another 2 brix. This leaves the Avante with 20 brix to consume, resulting in a 11.5 % wine, plus any alcohol production from the Prelude.

My theory is that since the alcohol is a solvent and it was 30% lower, coupled with the reduced temperature, resulted in significantly less color extraction from the skins.

 

[sour_grapes]

Could well be off-base here, but I wager that the carboy on the right (which looks lighter) just has more suspended solids in it at this point. The light does not get to penetrate as deeply, and the net result is that it looks lighter.

Time will tell!

 

[jgareri]

Look at the sediment on the bottle. There's a big difference so the sediment concept could be pretty accurate

 

[Slappy]

Did the wine with the prelude used not ferment as dry in the end? I'm confused why the alcohol is lower if the fruits the same and was finished with the same yeast (Avante). Very interesting the differences in the wine at this stage I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.

 

[balatonwine]

Could well be off-base here, but I wager that the carboy on the right (which looks lighter) just has more suspended solids in it at this point. The light does not get to penetrate as deeply, and the net result is that it looks lighter.

Time will tell!

Yes, time will tell.

However.... your comment is an excellent example of exposing simplistic observations and potential unallowed extrapolation, versus actual cause and effect.

That is claiming "I used XYZ and this is what I saw, therefore ABC is true ....." versus, what may be the real (and possible different) cause of the observation.

 

[balatonwine]

First impressions of using Non-Saccharomyces yeast: We used a strain called Prelude from CHR HANSEN. Prelude is a pure strain of Torulaspora delbrueckii to be used in combination with your Saccharomyces cerevisiae strain of choice. This non-Saccharomyces yeast strain has been carefully selected to mimic successful wild ferments, increase aromatic complexity, enhance fresh fruit-forward wines, and develop a round mouthfeel. For wines fermented or aged in oak, Prelude bridges the gap between yeast derived compounds and oak flavors.

This read so much like a sponsored ad, I almost did not continue reading the rest of the post.....

 

[NorCal]

Excellent observation. The Avante did have more time to clear, since it finished fermentation earlier.

 

[NorCal]

Did the wine with the prelude used not ferment as dry in the end? I'm confused why the alcohol is lower if the fruits the same and was finished with the same yeast (Avante). Very interesting the differences in the wine at this stage I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.

The non saccharomyces yeast consumes the sugar but is much less efficient at converting the sugar to alcohol. How much so, I can’t find any data on.

 

[mainshipfred]

Could well be off-base here, but I wager that the carboy on the right (which looks lighter) just has more suspended solids in it at this point. The light does not get to penetrate as deeply, and the net result is that it looks lighter.

Time will tell!

I don't think you are off base at all. My fall OVZ was much lighter when racked a day after pressing then the Syrah. The skins in the Zin were much softer and produced a lot more sediment. Now 2 weeks or so later the Zin is nearly as dark as the Syrah. I've read posts about filtering making wine lighter to the contrary I believe it makes it darker as you said due to light penetration. I've started filtering my reds with a 1 micron filter.

Now back to topic, very interesting @4score.

 

[pgentile]

The non saccharomyces yeast consumes the sugar but is much less efficient at converting the sugar to alcohol. How much so, I can’t find any data on.

Here is an evaluation of non-sacc yeasts with a sugar consumed % for each strain in their test.

https://aem.asm.org/content/aem/80/5/1670.full.pdf

 

[Ajmassa]

@4score - got another question for ya.

Since these 2 ferments had such different timelines, I would assume the Avante batch was pressed after 4-5 days. Then racked a few days later.
And the prelude/Avante batch pressed much later.
So at the time of the picture the Avante batch had time to settle and darken. The Avante batch still fresh from pressing (did you gross lees rack yet?) therefore causing the difference in color.
Is this the case— or have they both been racked off lees and had time to settle?

 

[sour_grapes]

However.... your comment is an excellent example of exposing simplistic observations and potential unallowed extrapolation, versus actual cause and effect.

I disagree. My comment, which clearly conveyed speculation as to the possible cause, differs significantly from your characterization of it.

I offered my speculation because it appeared not to have occurred to @4score , who was actively casting about for explanations for his observation. In other words, I was trying to be useful to him.

 

[Johnd]

In other words, I was trying to be useful to him.

You do so quite well in my opinion.