Oak for Fruit

[CortneyD]

Okay, I've read a bunch of threads on here about oaking- when to add, what to use, all that jazz, but I'm trying to figure out when/where/how oaking should be applied to fruit wines?

I'm assuming I'll be oaking the wild grape batch I've got planned, just to help offset that acids in the skins, but I'm unsure where else I would want to apply it.

What non-grape wines have you oaked to great effect?
Thanks!

 

[cmason1957]

Blackberry, elderberry both are good candidates for oaking.

 

[Raptor99]

Blueberry too! I even tried oaking my pear wine.

 

[David Violante]

I have some apple with a medium toast in it now, I’ll let you know how it turns out~

 

[VinesnBines]

Dark fruits though I have oak in fig, red raspberry, tomato and banana.

 

[Jovimaple]

I made a batch of Vintner's Best black raspberry wine base and oaked 1 gallon of it.

 

[CortneyD]

I made a batch of Vintner's Best black raspberry wine base and oaked 1 gallon of it.

I'm debating the merits of this for my black raspberry batch I have going now. I've got 6.5 gallons in the carboy and once I rack it, I only have a 5 gallon carboy to move it into, so I'm thinking that last gallon will get oaked as a 1:1 comparison. Thanks for the encouragement!

 

[CortneyD]

I have some apple with a medium toast in it now, I’ll let you know how it turns out~

I'm excited to hear how this goes- what variety/varieties of apples did you use?

 

[winemaker81]

@CortneyD, you can successfully oak any wine. The big different is amount of oak and duration. Lighter wines are more easily overpowered by oak, so use less oak and for a shorter duration.

 

[CortneyD]

@CortneyD, you can successfully oak any wine. The big different is amount of oak and duration. Lighter wines are more easily overpowered by oak, so use less oak and for a shorter duration.

Oh sure! I know you CAN, but we all know that doesn't mean you SHOULD!
I was more fishing around for what wines would particularly benefit from it or ones that folks have done and prefer oaked to unoaked.

 

[David Violante]

I'm excited to hear how this goes- what variety/varieties of apples did you use?

So… this was a last minute apple wine. My sister had a lot of trees that were in a variety of shape from great to not so great and she asked if I wanted any of the apples before the deer got to them or they all fell to the ground. They are all Royal Gala. Some super lovely and some kind of rough looking but they all tasted great.

I have a 3-gallon without oak and a 6-gallon with oak. I just tasted them today (thank you for piquing my curiosity). They’re pretty similar except that the one with oak has some oakey flavor notes in it LOL…

Were I to do it again, which I intend to do, I think I would add some bananas for body, and add different apples for some other complex flavor notes. I definitely like it and am looking forward to how the oak impacts it in another month or so. It’s only been in there one month so far. If it seems a bit much, I can blend the two. I’m also interested in how else I may want it to taste (cinnamon, ginger, allspice, clove, brown sugar…) and can add some of those now to change the taste profile as well.

To follow up with what Bryan (@winemaker81) was saying, know how you want it to taste when you’re done, and make conscious moves to get there along the way. Taste it throughout the entire process to know more about what you’re doing and how it’s impacting the wine. Also, each year‘s harvest can be slightly different (because of environmental changes) and so what you do one year to the next *may* be slightly different.

Goodness… apologies for the long reply…

 

[CortneyD]

@David Violante thank you for the thoughtful and informative reply- I appreciate it!
I have some wild grapes that I know will benefit from oaking (acid-wise) but I'm hesitant to oak up a bunch of other fruits since we aren't generally huge fans of oak-forward wines. I'm trying to better understand when and where oak helps with flavor development as opposed to oak for oak's sake.

 

[winemaker81]

I know you CAN, but we all know that doesn't mean you SHOULD!

It's wonderful that you don't have to be told this!

This is not directed specifically at winemakers -- I'm in IT and the number of times some executive read a new technology buzzword and wanted us to change the direction of a project to use some new technology [which may not even be available yet] boggles my mind.

I agree with previous feedback that dark fruits can benefit from oak. Elderberry more, raspberry less -- IMO. How much oaking depends solely on your tastes. Experimenting with a gallon is your best choice.

Lighter fruits? Any may benefit from light oaking to provide some additional taste and/or complexity. This includes apple and pear, and virtually any light fruit wine I can think of. Again, it comes back to your taste, and experimenting with a gallon is far less risky, and you may find that blending a gallon of oaked pear into 5 gallons of unoaked pear may hit a sweet spot.

I realize this is not as exact as you're hoping for, but it may give you the confidence to go forward with a limited test. If you do this, create a new thread and report your process and results -- the next "you" may appreciate it.

 

[CortneyD]

@winemaker81 Thank you!
I think the 1 gallon experiments are the way to go and I'll likely tinker with some in this latest batch of black raspberry- I've got extra fruit in there so it has good body and flavor and can probably handle a bit of oak (I hope!). It'll do me good to get over the "each batch is precious, you can't go mucking it up" mentality so that I can do more tinkering!
I appreciate the advice too- I know much of this (on the flavor side at least) isn't exact but I always appreciate guidance and learning from others. I'll be sure to start a new thread with the next batch. Thanks!

 

[Raptor99]

I agree with previous feedback that dark fruits can benefit from oak. Elderberry more, raspberry less -- IMO. How much oaking depends solely on your tastes. Experimenting with a gallon is your best choice.

Lighter fruits? Any may benefit from light oaking to provide some additional taste and/or complexity. This includes apple and pear, and virtually any light fruit wine I can think of.

Good point. I don't like heavy oak in any wine, but when I oak pear wine or cider I go very light on the oak. Darker fruits can handle a little more oak. Low tannin fruits especially benefit from a little oak. Wines with more oak/tannins can be kept for a longer time, but on the other hand need more aging to become mature.

Whether or not to oak and how much to use depends on what flavor profile you are looking for. Experiment with different types of oak, different amounts, adding it at different times.

 

[winemaker81]

@CortneyD, a while back someone mentioned doing oak experiments by the bottle (can't remember who it was). Using this idea, bottle 5 bottles with oak cubes in them. Try 1 cube in bottle #2, 2 in #2, etc. Or double or triple the # of cubes. Let them age for 3 months and then do a double-blind taste test.

You mark the bottles 1 through 5 in a random order, recording which is which. Someone else reorders them and marks them A through E (covering your label). Then pour and taste test.

If you do this with 375 ml bottles, you can double the test (1 to 10 cubes), or do 1 to 5 twice -- taste test a group at 1 or 2 months then again at 3 or 4 months, or something like that.

 

[WinoDave]

I did a blackberry wine with medium charred oak cubes soaked in 3 cups of bourbon and it came out pretty tasty. Soaked the cubes for 1 week in the bourbon and then threw it all
In the wine for another week.

 

[CortneyD]

UPDATE: I oaked 1 gallon of our black raspberry and just tried it after a month. I was only able to find chips at our local supplier, untoasted American oak to be exact, but I soaked them for a day and tossed them in.

I am super impressed with the added depth and complexity as compared to its twin 1 gallon without oak even at this young age. But it wasn't noticably oaky, just a rounder and more complex flavor. The unoaked one tasted "flat" by comparison.

I'm off to add oak into the 5 gallon carboy and age it another month before bottling... thanks everyone for the input and help! I appreciate you!