Oak toast levels

[tjgaul]

I stopped at the local HBS last night to pick up a few supplies and grabbed a bag of dark toast oak chips. I have never used dark before, just medium and light. I thought it would be a good addition to the toolkit for some bolder reds.

The kid (sorry, but anyone under 25 looks like a kid to me at this point) at the counter told me that the extra toasting cooks off most of the flavor of the oak and that the intensity from these chips would be very mild. That seems counter intuitive and totally contradictory to what I've read. Is this guy misinformed or do I not understand the meaning of light, medium, medium+, and dark toasting?

 

[cmason1957]

I would probably agree with what you have read. The toasting level doesn't really do much to the oak level, it does bring out different tastes from the oak. I don't use chips very often, too me you get more tannin and less oak flavor from them and they give up what little they have so fast. I generally just add them in my primary fermenter and go with cubes or staves for longer term aging.

 

[stickman]

The below quote was taken from a Laffort study conducted in 2008.

"The toast level of the wood plays a role in the amount of extractable tannin in oak chips, since phenolic materials in the wood are converted into aromatic compounds during toasting, such as vanillin and guaiacol. It is obvious that for maximum structural contribution a lightly-toasted chip should be used, whilst for maximum aromatic contribution a heavy toast should be used."

 

[cgallamo]

I don't like chips for long term aging either. xoakers are my favorite if you don't splurge on the barrel.

 

[Brian55]

I don't like chips for long term aging either. xoakers are my favorite if you don't splurge on the barrel.

Mine as well, much easier to deal with than cubes or chips.

 

[tjgaul]

I don't like chips for long term aging either. xoakers are my favorite if you don't splurge on the barrel.

I only use the chips in aging occasionally, when I want to preserve the fruit and give just a hint of oak. Typically, I use American oak spirals or Hungarian cubes. I've never tried the Xoakers, but I just looked them up online. $37 per lb seems a bit steep, especially compared to what you pay for either chips or cubes. Are they really worth it? They look pretty nifty, but the price scares me.

 

[ceeaton]

I only use the chips in aging occasionally, when I want to preserve the fruit and give just a hint of oak. Typically, I use American oak spirals or Hungarian cubes. I've never tried the Xoakers, but I just looked them up online. $37 per lb seems a bit steep, especially compared to what you pay for either chips or cubes. Are they really worth it? They look pretty nifty, but the price scares me.

They give up their goodies (flavors) slowly over a longer period of time. I've noticed the difference having them in up to a year. The oak flavor is not harsh in the least, but can be easily overdone if you don't tip the carboy every now and then and sample the wine.

Now only if they could find a way to micro-oxidize your wine without the barrel!

 

[cgallamo]

I only use the chips in aging occasionally, when I want to preserve the fruit and give just a hint of oak. Typically, I use American oak spirals or Hungarian cubes. I've never tried the Xoakers, but I just looked them up online. $37 per lb seems a bit steep, especially compared to what you pay for either chips or cubes. Are they really worth it? They look pretty nifty, but the price scares me.

Yeah they are expensive - no doubt. Maybe we could hone the edges of some cubes

 

[Brian55]

I only use the chips in aging occasionally, when I want to preserve the fruit and give just a hint of oak. Typically, I use American oak spirals or Hungarian cubes. I've never tried the Xoakers, but I just looked them up online. $37 per lb seems a bit steep, especially compared to what you pay for either chips or cubes. Are they really worth it? They look pretty nifty, but the price scares me.

To me, they're definitely worth it. Eventually some competition will help drive down the price.