Orange wine fermentation didn't start

[socialdougal]

Here's the recipe:
Ripe oranges 10
Brewed tea for tannin
Sugar 1kg
Store-bought orange juice 0.5L
Active dried baking yeast 4gm
Vegemite 2 pea-size blobs for yeast nutrient
Water to 5L

The oranges' squeezed juice, store juice, zest, sugar and some of the water went into a pan for a boil

Orange pulp discarded, zest retained

That whole mix, including zest, went into the primary fermenter and cooled until tepid

Primed the yeast with a tsp sugar

Added the tannin and yeast to the cooled mix, topped up to 5L with water, capped and airlocked. Ambient temp is at around 20 C

No activity after 24 hours

What could be wrong, folks?

 

[Julie]

Baking yeast is just not going to do it. You need something a little more aggressive, I would try Lavlin 1118.

 

[Bergmann]

I agree with Julie!
Why do people want to go through all the efforts involved in producing wine and them use bread yeast. I mean it is not like it is any cheaper. And doing so would be like putting cooking oil in a car engine. they are both il, but have two completely different purposes.

 

[Turock]

Gotta use a proper nutrient,also.

 

[cpfan]

What could be wrong, folks?

Could be you need to wait another day or two.

Steve

 

[socialdougal]

Thanks folks.

For some reason I didn't get notifications of your comments. I expect that's my fault.

Anyway, I can tell you that the fermentation is going nicely now. I'm not sure if it was really needed or if I could have just waited, but I added 30% more primed yeast.

I brewed beer from kits years ago, and now I just decided to get back into brewing on a whim and I'm in a different country, so I don't have all the gear to hand. I even had to make my own airlocks for the first two batches of wine (apple and orange) I have going here. The oranges came from a tree growing in a public area. The bread yeast was handy because I bake my own bread.

There are no brewing shops here, and I believe that's because alcohol production is by licence only. I have provisions and equipment on order, and I did find one local supplier of malt extract in 1lb 4oz jars as well as an overseas supplier of hops, so beer will be on the brew soon.

Meanwhile, I did locate one forum post about using baking yeast by a brewer with a lot of experience. His trials had concluded that it is not as problematic as is widely believed.

My main concern about this wine now is having all that zest in the fermentation jar. The recipe is an adaption of one I found on the Net. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Thanks again.

 

[wineforfun]

The zest will be fine, you will rack off of it when moving from primary to secondary. Some of it may be problematic in your racking cane but most should stay back.

 

[BernardSmith]

Hi Socialdougal and welcome. Dougal's a guid Scottish name.
Brewers need heat but wine makers generally don't... What was the reason for boiling the OJ? I guess my thinking - for what it's worth - and it may be worth very little - is that your wine might taste a little....um.... thin. You are diluting about - what? 3/4 L of OJ with about 4 L or more of water... I don't know about you but generally, if I am drinking orange juice I prefer my OJ to be undiluted. Adding yeast and fermenting out the sugars does not intensify the fruit flavors...

Now, the acidity of OJ is such that a little water helps cut it but I am thinking your OJ might taste more like faintly flavored water than orange wine given the quantity of water with which you have diluted the juice. If I were you I might have added only store bought OJ to make up the liquid to 5 L , not water. Wine ain't beer and you really want to add more fruit juice rather than water when wine making.
Rather than Marmite or Vegemite you might simply proof some yeast in a little water and boil that mixture. The dead yeast will provide some basic nutrients without the sodium and other flavors in the yeast extract.
Good luck

 

[socialdougal]

The zest will be fine, you will rack off of it when moving from primary to secondary. Some of it may be problematic in your racking cane but most should stay back.

I'd planned to strain the mix when moving to secondary, so getting the zest out shouldn't be an issue. My concern is more about whether that much zest will make the whole batch bitter. That's the recipe, though, and the author says hers turned out good, so let's see what happens. Cheers!

 

[socialdougal]

Hi Socialdougal and welcome. Dougal's a guid Scottish name.
Brewers need heat but wine makers generally don't... What was the reason for boiling the OJ? I guess my thinking - for what it's worth - and it may be worth very little - is that your wine might taste a little....um.... thin. You are diluting about - what? 3/4 L of OJ with about 4 L or more of water... I don't know about you but generally, if I am drinking orange juice I prefer my OJ to be undiluted. Adding yeast and fermenting out the sugars does not intensify the fruit flavors...

Now, the acidity of OJ is such that a little water helps cut it but I am thinking your OJ might taste more like faintly flavored water than orange wine given the quantity of water with which you have diluted the juice. If I were you I might have added only store bought OJ to make up the liquid to 5 L , not water. Wine ain't beer and you really want to add more fruit juice rather than water when wine making.
Rather than Marmite or Vegemite you might simply proof some yeast in a little water and boil that mixture. The dead yeast will provide some basic nutrients without the sodium and other flavors in the yeast extract.
Good luck

Thanks Bernard. Dougal is the name of a wee west highland terrier who was born in Australia, adopted a funny-looking geezer and his wife in Singapore, and now lets them live with him in Japan, laddie.

Boiling the mix was called for in the recipe, whose orange content was only 10 whole oranges. I decided on adding the extra store-bought OJ. So the total juice content was the juice of 10 whole oranges plus the store juice. The zest does appear to be giving the mix a great orange essence at this stage. I'd say the heat was needed at least to dissolve the sugar and soften the zest, and probably also to eliminate any microbes in the mix.

I'll see what it turns out like, but at this stage I'm thinking you're right about upping the juice content to at least 3L and maybe reducing the amount of zest. Great advice on the yeast nutrient till I get some. Cheers for that.

I also have an apple wine on the go. Will be sure to post here how they turn out.

 

[BernardSmith]

Thanks Bernard. Dougal is the name of a wee west highland terrier who was born in Australia, adopted a funny-looking geezer and his wife in Singapore, and now lets them live with him in Japan, laddie.

Boiling the mix was called for in the recipe, whose orange content was only 10 whole oranges. I decided on adding the extra store-bought OJ. So the total juice content was the juice of 10 whole oranges plus the store juice. The zest does appear to be giving the mix a great orange essence at this stage. I'd say the heat was needed at least to dissolve the sugar and soften the zest, and probably also to eliminate any microbes in the mix.

I'll see what it turns out like, but at this stage I'm thinking you're right about upping the juice content to at least 3L and maybe reducing the amount of zest. Great advice on the yeast nutrient till I get some. Cheers for that.

I also have an apple wine on the go. Will be sure to post here how they turn out.

Ah... as in Dougal of the the Magic Roundabout? (I think he was a terrier but don't know if he was a heiland dug).

An effective way for wine makers to eliminate wild and unwanted yeasts and other bacteria is to use K-meta (Campden tablets). When dissolved in water they release SO2 and SO2 is a good bactericide (sulfa drugs are still used, I believe, in animal medicine as a general spectrum antibiotic). At higher concentrations (about 2 oz of K-meta per gallon of water) you can use this to sanitize all your equipment.

 

[sour_grapes]

Ah... as in Dougal of the the Magic Roundabout?

This is funny! I knew of the concept of the Magic Roundabout traffic circle, but I did not know that the name came from a cartoon!

(I think he was a terrier but don't know if he was a heiland dug).

All-knowing Wikipedia says "Skye Terrier."

When dissolved in water they release SO2 and SO2 is a good bactericide (sulfa drugs are still used, I believe, in animal medicine as a general spectrum antibiotic).

By the way, sulfa drugs are chemically completely dissimilar to sulfites.

 

[BernardSmith]

Thanks, Paul. I guess I simply assumed that the sulfur in sulfa drugs was the key element in those antibiotics... Much more complicated than that, it seems...

When I was a kid , the Magic Roundabout was a great children's five minute animation the BBC broadcast just before the evening's news, but when I went to university, we watched the same programs as if they were part of the underground (Dylan the Rabbit was always completed spaced out and Zebedee (boiing!) was both "the man".. and the master... ("time for bed"), and Ermitrude the cow.. and Florence.. oh..and Mr McHenry on his bike... TV on mild altering substances...

 

[sour_grapes]

TV on mild altering substances...

Gee, all we did like that in college was play "The Love Boat" and "Fantasy Island" as drinking games.

 

[socialdougal]

This is funny! I knew of the concept of the Magic Roundabout traffic circle, but I did not know that the name came from a cartoon!



All-knowing Wikipedia says "Skye Terrier."

Yes, Dougal was a Magic Roundabout character. It was a collection of puppets/toys put in motion, but the really interesting thing about the show (which was aimed at kids) was revealed years after it went off the screen. The writer of the original books had based his characters on drug users and dealers. Dougal could never stay still and was on speed, I think. Dylan the rabbit clearly liked his weed, and Zebadee (spelling?), the toy who bounced in on a spring, was a dealer.

 

[BernardSmith]

The books came later, I think. The original, original was stop frame animation and was a reworked version of a French animation. The British producers simply used original film and wrote their own story lines that had nothing to do with the original stories. Eric Thompson, I think it was, was the narrator and it was his narration that created the story thread for the British version.

and yeah, Paul... British TV was often far more cutting , sharp and original than US network TV - Zed cars, for instance

 

[socialdougal]

Just an update on the wine (not The Magic Roundabout) - The fermentation is still going, but slowed to a point where I decided to strain out the zest and other scraps. Racked it into a clean jar to do that, and I like what I can see and smell. It looks to be clearing and has a pleasant zesty essence along with a discernible scent of alcohol. Capped and airlocked the jar, and keeping at fermentation temperature (about 20-22°C). The plan is to rack again after fermentation ends, then move to a cooler spot. How's that sound?

 

[BernardSmith]

sounds good. You may want to use a new (and sanitized) baster or wine thief to draw a small sample and taste the wine.. In my opinion, as with cooking, it is so important to taste the wine even while it is in the middle of fermenting - At the very least you can get a sense of the changes that the wine is undergoing and you can get a sense of how the flavors and tastes develop and change. Wine from oranges - I think - may surprise you with its bitterness.

 

[socialdougal]

You may want to use a new (and sanitized) baster or wine thief...

Why "new"?

 

[BernardSmith]

Apologies for my lack of clarity - You don't want to use a baster you have used for basting meat or the like... so "new" was perhaps the wrong word. I should have said a wine or beer dedicated baster