paw paw wine ... extrapolation a good idea?

[wine newbee]

I had a nice paw paw harvest this year in eastern NC; what's left is now frozen in my stand-alone freezer.

I'm wondering about making paw paw wine. Maybe ~1 gal? Can I thaw and squish out an amount of paw paw meat that would correspond to the weight of grapes I'd use for 1 gallon of wine? Of course, there's the sugar addition that has to be considered. Maybe 2 gallons would make more sense? I didn't wanna do a ton, since -- if it bombs -- that would be a major waste.

thx, guys, for any ideas/feedback/anecdotes/ etc ....

mitch

PS: since paw paws aren't really sugary-sweet (unlike figs), the sugar addition might be kinda iffy? I wouldn't know exactly where to start with that .....

 

[VinesnBines]

I used 9 lbs of peeled/frozen pawpaws (in a mesh bag), 6 lbs of sugar, 4 1/2 t citric acid, 1 1/2 t tannin, 3 t of yeast nutrient I first poured the sugar over the frozen pawpaws and poured 2 1/2 gallons boiling water over the sugar and frozen pawpaws. When the must cooled I added the nutrients, acid, tannin; 12 hours later I pitched EC 1118 yeast. After a fast ferm, I racked off 2 3/4 gallon. After a month I racked down to two gallons. It was another month before it began to taste better. It took five months to clear and I finally was able to bottle eight months after starting. I haven't tasted; I read that it may be four or five years before it mellows.

 

[wine newbee]

wow! Thx, Vines -- exactly what I believe I needed. I dunno if I'm patient enough to wait umpteen years for the mellowing process. Maybe no choice if I'm serious, though. Is there a specific reason you used frozen paw paws? I have no problem with thawing 'em. I have all the ingredients, so that would be an easy start. Is there a source you used that referred to paw paws in wine-making? Much obliged ....

Mitch

 

[VinesnBines]

I froze them because I didn't have enough at one time for wine. As you know the shelf life is about 30 seconds. I just googled around and found various recipes. Most were the same, 2-3 lbs of pawpaw per gallon and 2 lbs of sugar. I didn't get a SG reading at the start. I'm not sure with the pulp if a reading is possible. My notes show the bag swelled before I pitched the yeast and it was a mucky mess. TONS of sediment. I did peel them and tried to remove the seeds. I was able to remove seeds better as the pulp broke down in the fermentation.

I didn't get any pawpaws this year. Not in the woods at the right time and my trees are too small to produce. I've been starting trees from seed.

 

[wine newbee]

OK -- makes sense to me. I have 5 trees (and maybe 100 little volunteers) on my property; about 8-9 years old, and I bought them as 1-ft-tallers from a New Zealander who lived near the NC coast [and said he dug the little trees up from the banks of the Cape Fear River]. Several ~ 20' or more tall now, 1 maybe 8' and 1 (for some reason) ~ 6 feet.

Thx a heap for the data. Yeah, they mos' def don't keep -- people ask me why they don't see paw paws in stores, and I'm sure that's the reason. I doubt I'll peel -- when I add pp's to yogurt (for a meal), I just split the thawed fruit in the middle and squish out the "guts", seeds and all. Easy, but I have to remember to not bite down on a seed later........

 

[VinesnBines]

All the recipes I read suggest peeling. I think the peel is pretty bitter.

 

[wine newbee]

Yeah -- I didn't clarify in my last post: once I squish out the meat of the paw paw, I toss the peels in the garden mulch. Never tried eating the peels on their own ayhhow .....

 

[wine newbee]

I used 9 lbs of peeled/frozen pawpaws (in a mesh bag), 6 lbs of sugar, 4 1/2 t citric acid, 1 1/2 t tannin, 3 t of yeast nutrient I first poured the sugar over the frozen pawpaws and poured 2 1/2 gallons boiling water over the sugar and frozen pawpaws. When the must cooled I added the nutrients, acid, tannin; 12 hours later I pitched EC 1118 yeast. After a fast ferm, I racked off 2 3/4 gallon. After a month I racked down to two gallons. It was another month before it began to taste better. It took five months to clear and I finally was able to bottle eight months after starting. I haven't tasted; I read that it may be four or five years before it mellows.

OK, Vines -- I'm wondering (now that I've actually begun the process) ....

When you wrote "a fast ferm", exactly how fast was that? Maybe something I can play by ear -- to see when gas production has stopped?

Also: you used Lalvin 1118 yeast; the only yeast I have on-hand is Lalvin D47; I don't recall why I have that type -- other than the brewing shop owner telling me back-when [before I ever considered making paw paw wine] I should use it instead of 1118.

Thx a heap for any kind of feedback on this; s/b an adventure, no matter what ....

Mitch

 

[VinesnBines]

The pawpaws started fermenting before I pitched my yeast. It was vigorous for several days. According to my notes, I racked out of primary in 7 days. Not super fast but plenty vigorous.
I used EC 1118 because I had it on hand and the recipe said to use champagne yeast. I’m sure D47 will be fine. It probably will bring out the fruity taste.
I opened a bottle tonight. It was nice and clear and the aroma was definitely of pawpaw. It had a little aftertaste from some grapefruit juice I used to top up in the secondary. I think a little backsweeten may be in order. That aftertaste May fade over time. I won’t suggest using grapefruit juice to top up although I have made a wonderful grapefruit wine.

 

[VinesnBines]

Update. I added a little sugar and that cut the grapefruit tang but the after taste was still there. I suggest removing the seeds before fermenting. I still hope that fades in time.

 

[VinesnBines]

Update Jan: 2022. I started this in September 2019. I intended to have three gallons but I lost so much to lees that I ended up with 1.75 gallons. I back sweetened a bit and bottled in April, 2020. November 2020 it had an awful aftertaste. Opened a bottle this evening and it has really improved. The aftertaste is gone. I'm planning to leave it at least a couple more years. at least five years in the bottle. It was easy to leave it alone since November, 2020 because of the dread of the aftertaste. Now it may be a little harder to leave it alone but I'll try!

 

[wine newbee]

Howdy, Vines; good to know that the effort seems to've panned out for you. I've learned how much of a let-down it is to work at wine-making, wait forever to sample, and then ... it bombs.

I ended up with 6 small (750 ml) and 2 large (1.5 l) btls from my paw paw wine project. All of it still looks like water from the Tar River -- tan-brown and not exactly appealing. I don't plan to try it for a couple more years, and I've figured out, too, that nearly all the wine I make ends up needing back-sweetening.

Thx again for the assist ....

Mitch

 

[VinesnBines]

Mine is a lovely color and no bottle sediment. I think I let it age about 7 months in the carboy before I bottled. Next time (hope I can get enough) I’ll remove the seeds at the start. I think that was the odd aftertaste I had at bottling.
Most fruit or non grape wines need a little back sweetening to bring out the flavor.

 

[wine newbee]

OK, V; just for clarity -- at what point do you back-sweeten, and how? Just before racking? Is it possible (if you've already bottled) to pour out contents, sweeten to taste, the put the wine back into the bottle? That may be crazy, but ... I have to ask.

 

[VinesnBines]

Not crazy! To avoid the chance of bottle bombs, I usually bottle my fruit wines dry and at opening, I sweeten to taste and either consume quickly (within a week) or refrigerate. This takes the risk out of back sweetening. I back sweeten with a simple syrup (equal parts sugar and water heated - not boiled - until the sugar is dissolved.) To sweeten a bottle, I usually take a 2 ounce sample, start with 1/2 teaspoon simple syrup and add to taste. Then multiply by ounces. This math is like this 1/2 teaspoon simple syrup for 2 ounces of wine; for the rest of the bottle add 5 1/2 teaspoons simple syrup. Does that make sense. This has the advantage of allowing you to sweeten for your guest's or own preference. The downside is that you only give away bottles that are dry or that have to be refrigerated.

I've had sorbate fail and bottles referment so I'm gun shy about back sweetening.

With the PawPaw, I thought I back sweetened but if so, I I didn't make a note. So anyone's guess! It doesn't need any sweetening at this point.

 

[wine newbee]

Much obliged, Vines; I've told the old-timers at the neat wine-tasting in Raleigh several times that I plan to take a btl of paw paw to 'em to sample, so .... next time, I'll back-sweeten an already-bottled paw paw wine to carry. It could even be a hit! The last time I attended, I carried a btl of my 1st-ever batch of muscadine wine. Super-dry, and it was a shock to some folks, after they'd been sampling choc-cherry wine, cherry wine, ports, etc. They looked as if they'd eaten a green persimmon ....
Mitch

 

[BigDaveK]

Hmmm, some good information here. Hopefully it will come in handy this year. I have 5 or 6 trees and a boatload of volunteers but for the last 3 years I've had frost 2 or 3 weeks after the "official" last frost day and lost every single blossom.

 

[VinesnBines]

Much obliged, Vines; I've told the old-timers at the neat wine-tasting in Raleigh several times that I plan to take a btl of paw paw to 'em to sample, so .... next time, I'll back-sweeten an already-bottled paw paw wine to carry. It could even be a hit! The last time I attended, I carried a btl of my 1st-ever batch of muscadine wine. Super-dry, and it was a shock to some folks, after they'd been sampling choc-cherry wine, cherry wine, ports, etc. They looked as if they'd eaten a green persimmon ....
Mitch

Yes, make sure they taste dry first! I'm sure you won't need to sweeten the PawPaw too much.

Hmmm, some good information here. Hopefully it will come in handy this year. I have 5 or 6 trees and a boatload of volunteers but for the last 3 years I've had frost 2 or 3 weeks after the "official" last frost day and lost every single blossom.

I feel your pain. We've had late frosts the last two years. In 2020 we had a freeze on May 10 (the last frost date for our area). In 2021, we had a light frost on May 15; we still had a few things survive; grapes on the secondary buds of the hybrid vines. Hoping for a better 2022.

 

[Snafflebit]

There is a patch of paw paw trees on the Missouri farm. I considered transplanting one and position it to produce good fruit but I did not know how hard to grow they are. And, I cannot remember how they taste it has been so long ago. Would you say it is worthwhile to make paw paw wine or are there better fruits? I have persimmons out the wazoo and I plan to grow some peaches.

 

[VinesnBines]

They taste great but pollination is is a big issue. It can be difficult to attract pollinators and moisture is needed. They grow well as undergrowth along creekbanks and rivers. I have loads I have started from seed but they are a slow growing tree - despite what the nursery websites claim. Try it but don't mortgage the farm to plant them.