Petnat?

[Bmd2k1]

I'm taking the same approach -- rather than trying to nail a specific SG as primary fermentation is going on. If I had a Tilt and new that it really worked -- nailing a # with an alert would be much easier to accomplish. (as far as I'm concerned).

I'm trying to determine my best approach for clarifying the vino before adding the sugar back in once "FG" is reached --

- cold crashing and racking, then letting vino return to room temp, add sugar, use drill/mixer and bottle
or
- add K&C, rack, add sugar, use drill/mixer and bottle
or
- just rack, add sugar, use drill/mixer and bottle

 

[BarrelMonkey]

I'm trying to determine my best approach for clarifying the vino before adding the sugar back in once "FG" is reached

So are you planning to add more yeast at bottling? The process I described above was for wine that was still actively fermenting when I bottled it. Granted, racking by itself will not result in a sterile product - but if you're going to let it ferment dry (and particularly if you're going to cold crash and/or add fining agents) I would recommend adding a yeast culture at bottling ('tirage' in Champagne-speak) to ensure a robust ferment in the bottle. That's the advantage of traditional/Champagne method over pet-nat: you have more control over the process...

 

[Bmd2k1]

So are you planning to add more yeast at bottling? The process I described above was for wine that was still actively fermenting when I bottled it. Granted, racking by itself will not result in a sterile product - but if you're going to let it ferment dry (and particularly if you're going to cold crash and/or add fining agents) I would recommend adding a yeast culture at bottling ('tirage' in Champagne-speak) to ensure a robust ferment in the bottle. That's the advantage of traditional/Champagne method over pet-nat: you have more control over the process...

gonna try it this time around (lower ABV) -- not adding more yeast pre-bottling -- hoping the D47 colony is healthy enough to get 'er done. I'm still in a bit of a trial and error period for my sparkling vino process -- trying to leverage my carb'd hard cider successes still.

Hence my three previous options stated...


IF an additional/new yeast starter is added after sugar addition and pre-bottling -- how long do you let that starter go in the vino vessel / carboy before bottling?

Also -- how does K&C affect a yeast colony?


Cheers!

 

[BarrelMonkey]

If you're not adding more yeast before bottling then I would probably go with option 3. The advantage of this approach is that you already have yeast that are adapted to your wine. You'll ideally want to add sugar and bottle as soon as it goes dry so that your yeast population doesn't decline. I'd also add some yeast food at bottling (DAP or my preference Fermaid-O).

If you're going with a new yeast starter, you can do one of your other protocols where you clarify the base wine before secondary fermentation. Cold stab is a good idea to get any excess tartrates out. I have little experience with K&C so can't advise there.
As far as the starter goes I would use a champagne yeast such as EC1118 or DV10, both are great. I would grow it beforehand and acclimatize it to the wine, then bottle as soon as you've blended it in with the base wine. There are as many sparkling yeast starter ('tirage') protocols as there are sparkling wine makers, I collected at least half a dozen from scouring the internet. Most of these take 3 or 4 days to acclimatize the yeast and expand it, though for a small batch you can probably do a more quick and dirty method using more yeast and a short expansion phase. You'll want to bottle soon after adding your starter, ideally same day and certainly no longer than overnight.

Some options for tirage protocol (note some of these are for commercial quantities!):
Lum Eisenman (see Chapter 20)
Scott Labs
Enartis
UGA (L. Mawby winery)

ETA: And more references -
Novocastrian (emphasis on country wines)
Jack Keller

 

[Bmd2k1]

If you're not adding more yeast before bottling then I would probably go with option 3. The advantage of this approach is that you already have yeast that are adapted to your wine. You'll ideally want to add sugar and bottle as soon as it goes dry so that your yeast population doesn't decline. I'd also add some yeast food at bottling (DAP or my preference Fermaid-O).

If you're going with a new yeast starter, you can do one of your other protocols where you clarify the base wine before secondary fermentation. Cold stab is a good idea to get any excess tartrates out. I have little experience with K&C so can't advise there.
As far as the starter goes I would use a champagne yeast such as EC1118 or DV10, both are great. I would grow it beforehand and acclimatize it to the wine, then bottle as soon as you've blended it in with the base wine. There are as many sparkling yeast starter ('tirage') protocols as there are sparkling wine makers, I collected at least half a dozen from scouring the internet. Most of these take 3 or 4 days to acclimatize the yeast and expand it, though for a small batch you can probably do a more quick and dirty method using more yeast and a short expansion phase. You'll want to bottle soon after adding your starter, ideally same day and certainly no longer than overnight.

Some options for tirage protocol (note some of these are for commercial quantities!):
Lum Eisenman (see Chapter 20)
Scott Labs
Enartis
UGA (L. Mawby winery)

ETA: And more references -
Novocastrian (emphasis on country wines)
Jack Keller

Gonna go this route with this batch....see how it goes.

- Cold crash and new starter w/EC1118.

For a 6gal batch -- curious what your new starter protocol is?

Was thinking about using my typical yeast starter protocol (8oz 100F h20, 1pak yeast, 1t GoFerm & 3T sugar)-- and then tweak it after 4-8hrs by gradually introducing a bit of the fermented wine, maybe a few ounces at a time until I've reached 8oz vino added and more sugar (possibly some FermaidO too) over a couple days.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

For a 6gal batch -- curious what your new starter protocol is?

Was thinking about using my typical yeast starter protocol (8oz 100F h20, 1pak yeast, 1t GoFerm & 3T sugar)-- and then tweak it after 4-8hrs by gradually introducing a bit of the fermented wine, maybe a few ounces at a time until I've reached 8oz vino added and more sugar (possibly some FermaidO too) over a couple days.

I have a couple of options, either or both of which I'm happy to share in detail - let me know what sounds more useful...

For my 2022 sparkling (blanc de noir) wine I did a fairly elaborate tirage protocol, very hands-on for the first day and taking another 2-3 days of additions to reach the point of incorporating into the base wine. This worked out quite well. The tricky part is that I think it's a bit more challenging to do on a small scale, the volumes are so small that I think you need to control temperature in a water bath for at least the first day.

For my 2024 elderflower muscat I'm going to try a much simpler 'one day' method. The disadvantage is that the yeast don't have as long to acclimatize so your culture is not so robust, but I think it will be good enough for the more rustic country wine that I'm planning to make.

Your yeast starter plan sounds like it will work though. I would start with a smaller volume (4oz?) if you're going to expand it over a few days, you want your starter to be around 2-5% of the base wine volume. When you add in the fermented wine, you'll also need to add some sugar and water (to dilute out the alcohol that is being made during fermentation). I would make up the same volume as your starter of acclimatization mixture, say 50% water: wine with about 20% w/v sugar. Add gradually over a few hours (say 1oz every 30 min). Then fermaid-O to sustain overnight. Next day, expand your culture with a mixture that has more wine/less sugar than the acclimatization mixture. Measure brix/SG twice a day, morning and evening. You want the culture to gradually slow down so that it's close to 0 brix/1.000SG when you mix into your (sugared up) base wine. Add more fermaid-o every day to keep the yeast happy. When you mix the starter in to the base wine - Most producers just pour it in and mix well, but the way I was taught was to gradually add the wine to the starter, say 20-25% of the current volume every 5-10 minutes. This does add a few hours to your process but means that the yeast get another chance to adapt gradually.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

...And I just found this procedue for making a wine kit into sparkling wine:

https://brewerylane.com/wine/sparkling-wine-champagne-method

They don't do any acclimatization of the yeast, just rehydrate and stir it into the wine...
Not sure I would be brave enough to try that, but I assume it has worked in at least one instance...