Other Price comparison

[Vlabruz]

Where do people rate these kits wines in comparison to store bought. For example,a WE classic. Would that be a $15 bottle? Private reserve, $40? Any other kit brands.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Oh boy, this question will get you so many opinions. I have had some $8 commercial wine that tasted better to me than some $40 commercial bottles. I think each persons tastes are different. For me, I have yet to make a Kit wine that rivals any of my favorite $40+ commercial bottles. HOWEVER, I am hoping that FWK does or at least rivals them. Personally, a WE Classic is comparable to a $5-8 commercial

 

[Vlabruz]

Oh boy, this question will get you so many opinions. I have had some $8 commercial wine that tasted better to me than some $40 commercial bottles. I think each persons tastes are different. For me, I have yet to make a Kit wine that rivals any of my favorite $40+ commercial bottles. HOWEVER, I am hoping that FWK does or at least rivals them. Personally, a WE Classic is comparable to a $5-8 commercial

So in your opinion the only way to make a superior wine would be from fresh grapes?

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

So in your opinion the only way to make a superior wine would be from fresh grapes?

For Reds, which is all I drink. I do not think a traditional kit wine can be as good as a fresh grape or frozen must. But again, I think FWK products may change things for me, but mine are still too early to be able to make any claims. People who drink whites may believe they can be, I know my wife really like a few premium white kits (RJS EP White Trio). But, I too have to let you know that I make wine solely in the pursuit of making only premium wines. I do not tweak cheap kits or pursue making every day drinkers, as that is not my goal personally, to each their own

 

[Vlabruz]

For Reds, which is all I drink. I do not think a traditional kit wine can be as good as a fresh grape or frozen must. But again, I think FWK products may change things for me, but mine are still too early to be able to make any claims. People who drink whites may believe they can be, I know my wife really like a few premium white kits (RJS EP White Trio). But, I too have to let you know that I make wine solely in the pursuit of making only premium wines. I do not tweak cheap kits or pursue making every day drinkers, as that is not my goal personally, to each their own

I'm with you. Id like to be able to make a kit that is quality for a much lesser price tag than buying an equivalent commercial wine. I bought the classic as my first one to get my feet wet. I could've kept cost down and been in for a few bucks a bottle but I ended up falling down the rabbit hole and loading up on supplies. I guess over a few batches it'll even out.
I'm going to try a FWK probably the super tuscan, but I'm really interested in the WE amarone.

 

[Tim3]

The problem with wine kits is they don’t make very interesting wine, and I have yet to try a red kit wine that doesn’t produce some level of kit taste. So out of the gate they’re not comparable to mid-level or premium commercial wine. Maybe the problem is high quality vineyards don’t sell their grapes for concentrate, or maybe it’s something done in the concentrate process? Either way, the only times I can say it was a good “deal” to make my own wines, and have them compare to $40+ a bottle, have been with frozen grape musts ordered from great AVA’s. For example I made an excellent Petite Sirah ordered from Brehm, sourced from Fountaingrove. 2 pails with shipping cost around $600, so roughly $20 a bottle. That wine would retail for way more than $40, so in that sense it’s an excellent value.

 

[Vlabruz]

The problem with wine kits is they don’t make very interesting wine, and I have yet to try a red kit wine that doesn’t produce some level of kit taste. So out of the gate they’re not comparable to mid-level or premium commercial wine. Maybe the problem is high quality vineyards don’t sell their grapes for concentrate, or maybe it’s something done in the concentrate process? Either way, the only times I can say it was a good “deal” to make my own wines, and have them compare to $40+ a bottle, have been with frozen grape musts ordered from great AVA’s. For example I made an excellent Petite Sirah ordered from Brehm, sourced from Fountaingrove. 2 pails with shipping cost around $600, so roughly $20 a bottle. That wine would retail for way more than $40, so in that sense it’s an excellent value.

Do those must come with the skins?

 

[sour_grapes]

Another problem with attempting to make a comparison by price is that the retail price of commercial wines varies greatly by locale. Much of this variation is due to taxes. I don't think it is a total coincidence that so many of our home winemaking friends are Canadian! Even here, a bottle that costs me $10 in Wisconsin (where drinking is close to mandatory ) costs my family who live in state-store-controlled Pennsylvania $14.

In short, we don't know where you are located, @Vlabruz , and that may make a difference.

 

[Tim3]

Yes, the frozen must pails come with skins. Those pails are simply crushed and destemmed grapes straight from the vineyard after their sorting process, and then frozen. They haven’t been altered in any meaningful way that’s different from how a commercial winery would produce their product. Also, the thawing process is a built in cold soak, though I do try and extend it with some frozen water jugs for a few extra days.

 

[Vlabruz]

Another problem with attempting to make a comparison by price is that the retail price of commercial wines varies greatly by locale. Much of this variation is due to taxes. I don't think it is a total coincidence that so many of our home winemaking friends are Canadian! Even here, a bottle that costs me $10 in Wisconsin (where drinking is close to mandatory ) costs my family who live in state-store-controlled Pennsylvania $14.

In short, we don't know where you are located, @Vlabruz , and that may make a difference.

Valid point. Im in New York where everything is expensive.

 

[winemaker81]

Another problem with attempting to make a comparison by price is that the retail price of commercial wines varies greatly by locale.

In addition to locale, I learned long ago that the price tag on the bottle does not necessarily match the quality of what's inside. I've had $50 bottles that were totally meh, and $8 bottles that were pure gold. I rarely spend more than $15 USD on a bottle, as I focus on the low price gems.

I go by rating -- considering where the wine ranks on a 100 point scale. This is subjective, but it cuts the $$$ (or your local currency) out of the equation. The Wine Spectator scale is:

• 95-100 Classic: a great wine
• 90-94 Outstanding: a wine of superior character and style
• 85-89 Very good: a wine with special qualities
• 80-84 Good: a solid, well-made wine
• 75-79 Mediocre: a drinkable wine that may have minor flaws
• 50-74 Not recommended

Folks trying to make a 95-100 point wine? I regret to inform you that you are going to fail. If the major wineries that have access to the highest quality grapes, the best equipment, and highly trained personnel can't do it consistently -- the likelihood of any of us doing it is rather remote. Also keep in mind that these high end wineries will produce *1* wine in a year that is highly exceptional -- often their other wines are lesser. Likely very good, but still not in the same category as their front runner.

This is not intended to be a downer -- it's simple reality. I try to set my goals realistically -- for me, the minimum is an 80 point wine. If I achieve that, I'm satisfied. While it's not my goal, it's often the reality of the fruit I can get, the result of natural processes, and "stuff". It's a daily drinker, and I'm happy to serve it.

My hope for my wines is an 85-89, a wine that impresses those that taste it. If I can hit in this arena every time, I'm ecstatic.

All that said, my true goal is a 90 point wine. I think I hit this with my 2020 Meritage (fresh grapes), but won't know for another year or so.

Regarding kits? The reformulated WE kits are in my limited experience, much better. The WE Reserve Australian Cabernet Sauvignon I made in 2020 for my son's wedding reception came out quite well -- a solid 84 at his reception last October. We'll be cracking a bottle next October, and we'll see what an extra year in the bottle does. The Reserve Australian Chardonnay was a few points lower. While it was well received, it wasn't quite the same equivalent quality as the Cab. All that said, I was pleased with both.

I have FWK Super Tuscan and a FWK blend (Syrah, Petite Sirah, Merlot) in barrels now. As of a couple weeks ago, I was quite amazed at how they tasted at the 3 month mark. Time will tell, but the results so far bode well.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

I think the FWK’s will get us closer to those 90 point goals than any WE or RJS kit will, based upon early results.

 

[Vlabruz]

In addition to locale, I learned long ago that the price tag on the bottle does not necessarily match the quality of what's inside. I've had $50 bottles that were totally meh, and $8 bottles that were pure gold. I rarely spend more than $15 USD on a bottle, as I focus on the low price gems.

I go by rating -- considering where the wine ranks on a 100 point scale. This is subjective, but it cuts the $$$ (or your local currency) out of the equation. The Wine Spectator scale is:

• 95-100 Classic: a great wine
• 90-94 Outstanding: a wine of superior character and style
• 85-89 Very good: a wine with special qualities
• 80-84 Good: a solid, well-made wine
• 75-79 Mediocre: a drinkable wine that may have minor flaws
• 50-74 Not recommended

Folks trying to make a 95-100 point wine? I regret to inform you that you are going to fail. If the major wineries that have access to the highest quality grapes, the best equipment, and highly trained personnel can't do it consistently -- the likelihood of any of us doing it is rather remote. Also keep in mind that these high end wineries will produce *1* wine in a year that is highly exceptional -- often their other wines are lesser. Likely very good, but still not in the same category as their front runner.

This is not intended to be a downer -- it's simple reality. I try to set my goals realistically -- for me, the minimum is an 80 point wine. If I achieve that, I'm satisfied. While it's not my goal, it's often the reality of the fruit I can get, the result of natural processes, and "stuff". It's a daily drinker, and I'm happy to serve it.

My hope for my wines is an 85-89, a wine that impresses those that taste it. If I can hit in this arena every time, I'm ecstatic.

All that said, my true goal is a 90 point wine. I think I hit this with my 2020 Meritage (fresh grapes), but won't know for another year or so.

Regarding kits? The reformulated WE kits are in my limited experience, much better. The WE Reserve Australian Cabernet Sauvignon I made in 2020 for my son's wedding reception came out quite well -- a solid 84 at his reception last October. We'll be cracking a bottle next October, and we'll see what an extra year in the bottle does. The Reserve Australian Chardonnay was a few points lower. While it was well received, it wasn't quite the same equivalent quality as the Cab. All that said, I was pleased with both.

I have FWK Super Tuscan and a FWK blend (Syrah, Petite Sirah, Merlot) in barrels now. As of a couple weeks ago, I was quite amazed at how they tasted at the 3 month mark. Time will tell, but the results so far bode well.

Very well said. That super tuscan is what I want to try next. I just bought a commercial super tuscan today that I'm going to crack with dinner

 

[winemaker81]

I think the FWK’s will get us closer to those 90 point goals than any WE or RJS kit will, based upon early results.

Today, I agree with you. Tomorrow? We'll see if Matteo ignites a competition among other kit vendors. If so, consumers are the real winners!

Very well said. That super tuscan is what I want to try next. I just bought a commercial super tuscan today that I'm going to crack with dinner

I'm very pleased with mine so far, and can recommend it, even at 3 months old.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Very well said. That super tuscan is what I want to try next. I just bought a commercial super tuscan today that I'm going to crack with dinner

I just ordered myself a Flextank and am going to blend 2 FWK Forte Cabs and a FWK Forte Merlot, YUM

 

[Vlabruz]

In addition to locale, I learned long ago that the price tag on the bottle does not necessarily match the quality of what's inside. I've had $50 bottles that were totally meh, and $8 bottles that were pure gold. I rarely spend more than $15 USD on a bottle, as I focus on the low price gems.

I go by rating -- considering where the wine ranks on a 100 point scale. This is subjective, but it cuts the $$$ (or your local currency) out of the equation. The Wine Spectator scale is:

• 95-100 Classic: a great wine
• 90-94 Outstanding: a wine of superior character and style
• 85-89 Very good: a wine with special qualities
• 80-84 Good: a solid, well-made wine
• 75-79 Mediocre: a drinkable wine that may have minor flaws
• 50-74 Not recommended

Folks trying to make a 95-100 point wine? I regret to inform you that you are going to fail. If the major wineries that have access to the highest quality grapes, the best equipment, and highly trained personnel can't do it consistently -- the likelihood of any of us doing it is rather remote. Also keep in mind that these high end wineries will produce *1* wine in a year that is highly exceptional -- often their other wines are lesser. Likely very good, but still not in the same category as their front runner.

This is not intended to be a downer -- it's simple reality. I try to set my goals realistically -- for me, the minimum is an 80 point wine. If I achieve that, I'm satisfied. While it's not my goal, it's often the reality of the fruit I can get, the result of natural processes, and "stuff". It's a daily drinker, and I'm happy to serve it.

My hope for my wines is an 85-89, a wine that impresses those that taste it. If I can hit in this arena every time, I'm ecstatic.

All that said, my true goal is a 90 point wine. I think I hit this with my 2020 Meritage (fresh grapes), but won't know for another year or so.

Regarding kits? The reformulated WE kits are in my limited experience, much better. The WE Reserve Australian Cabernet Sauvignon I made in 2020 for my son's wedding reception came out quite well -- a solid 84 at his reception last October. We'll be cracking a bottle next October, and we'll see what an extra year in the bottle does. The Reserve Australian Chardonnay was a few points lower. While it was well received, it wasn't quite the same equivalent quality as the Cab. All that said, I was pleased with both.

I have FWK Super Tuscan and a FWK blend (Syrah, Petite Sirah, Merlot) in barrels now. As of a couple weeks ago, I was quite amazed at how they tasted at the 3 month mark. Time will tell, but the results so far bode well.

 

[heatherd]

I will say that the Finer Wine Kits are intentionally designed to not have kit taste. They have good yeast, all the chemicals, a yeast starter, skins, oak, and seeds. Also great directions. Finer Wine Kits | Label Peelers, Inc.