Primary Fermentation

[David Engel]

Hi All,

The hope this year is I will have enough must after crushing to be able to use a 5 gallon bucket (may only be a couple gallons of must... I don't know how to judge that based on the number of clusters I have on the vines. I've seen folks just put a towel over the top and have also seen folks put a lid with an airlock on, and maybe nothing at all. Recommendations from the folks that have time tested results?

Dave

 

[winemaker81]

Yeast want O2 for reproduction, so fermenting in a closed container slows down the process. I just use a bath towel to keep "stuff" out.

 

[BigDaveK]

I vaguely remember reading that with atmospheric pressure and blahblahblah that there will be 8 ppm oxygen in must at the beginning. Is that enough for a successful fermentation? One of my earliest wines immediately went under airlock only because I was blindly following a recipe. I didn't open it to stir, rocking the bucket daily instead. Seems kind of funny now. It worked, yes, but I use a towel now.

 

[vtoddw]

Hi All,

The hope this year is I will have enough must after crushing to be able to use a 5 gallon bucket (may only be a couple gallons of must... I don't know how to judge that based on the number of clusters I have on the vines. I've seen folks just put a towel over the top and have also seen folks put a lid with an airlock on, and maybe nothing at all. Recommendations from the folks that have time tested results?

Dave

Depends on the varietal and watering practices, but in most cases I've seen my merlot clusters weigh about 6 oz a piece on average, whereas my zin clusters weigh about 16 oz on average, so if you know the average weight of your clusters you can count them and get a decent rough estimate.

I think you'll fill a 5 gallon bucket to the rim with about 50 to 60 lbs (weighed with stems on) of grapes, which would then require a sealed lid with a blow off tube coming out of the airlock hole, otherwise you're gonna overflow big time in the first 3 days of primary. I personally plan to only fill my buckets half way this year so the cap doesn't touch the top and I can use a towel as others have reccomended.

If you've only got one 5 gallon bucket and you estimate more than 30 lbs I'd buy another bucket asap.

 

[David Engel]

Thanks V, I do have 2 brand new buckets ready.

 

[Charles DeVier]

I made Concord grape wine again this year. A 6 gallon bucket heaping full yielded 27 pounds of good quality ripe grapes. Concord grapes do not all ripen at the same time, so you usually have some very green grapes on the same cluster as the ripe grapes. The Concord wine I started last fall (2022) still is not ready to drink.
I will add that the gallon of apple wine and the gallon of pear wine that were started last fall ( Oct 2022) are now very good to drink and I can expect them to get even better.

 

[winemaker81]

@Charles DeVier, welcome to WMT!

 

[David Engel]

Good Morning Everyone,

At noon today, primary fermentation will have been going on for only 3 days. Yesterday I took a SG reading when I was punching the cap. The must started at 82 and was at 30. Does that seem a little fast? I was careful to measure the yeast properly; 1g per gallon of Red Star Premier Classique. Punching the cap 3 times a day, the buckets are in the house where they are subject to 67-69 deg F around the clock. The 6 gallons of must was divided in half and are in 5 gallon buckets.

Dave

 

[winemaker81]

At noon today, primary fermentation will have been going on for only 3 days. Yesterday I took a SG reading when I was punching the cap. The must started at 82 and was at 30. Does that seem a little fast? I was careful to measure the yeast properly; 1g per gallon of Red Star Premier Classique. Punching the cap 3 times a day, the buckets are in the house where they are subject to 67-69 deg F around the clock. The 6 gallons of must was divided in half and are in 5 gallon buckets.

In recent years I've had 3 day ferments, so no, there's nothing wrong.

 

[David Engel]

I was afraid you'd say that. As of this moment, my press won't be here until Thursday. If primary gets absolutely done before the press and carboys get here, I might try the saran wrap trick on top of the must... (extended macerations)?

 

[Ohio Bob]

I was afraid you'd say that. As of this moment, my press won't be here until Thursday and the carboys won't be here until next Monday. I've dragged my good wife into this endeavor and I was only able to do it by purchasing equipment, little at a time. I had no idea 55 pounds of grapes would give me six gallons of must. I had intended on hand pressing the grapes as I have done for 2 years when I only had a quart jar of liquid. I saw 6 gallons of must and immediately purchased a 3.1 gallon press. No problem, I'll order the carboys at the same time I thought. I did... they must be coming via slow boat from somewhere. Here I am about to finish primary fermentation and don't have the press or the vessels. I'm really baring my soul to the forum and feel kind of stupid (please be kind ).

What would you recommend I do if the primary goes absolutely complete in another day or two? I installed airlocks on the bucket lids and clamped them down tight on the buckets (read somewhere it might help slow things down... might be a moot point now).

Airlocks on the buckets should buy you 2 weeks or so. You will be fine.

 

[winemaker81]

Airlocks on the buckets should buy you 2 weeks or so. You will be fine.

What Bob said!

Even without airlocks, you have a week or so from the end of fermentation before I'd worry too much about oxidation. But with airlocks, you're fine.

 

[David Engel]

Thanks guys, you just helped my blood pressure down.

 

[winemaker81]

Thanks guys, you just helped my blood pressure down.

Oddly enough, I was going to make a joke about your blood pressure being closer to normal .......

 

[David Engel]

Hi All,

Might as well stay on this thread. Fermentation is close to done, SG of 0. However for reasons I know the answers to, the ph is 2.7 and the taste is sour, not vinegar, just pretty sour. Color is also pretty pale for trying to be Merlot (again I know why). Is there any chance of even coming close to drinkable in your opinions, before I go through the pressing stage and the racking and then bottling 12-15 bottles other than for the experience and fun of it?

Sort of bummed, but I knew I ran out of time with the weather and have since learned Merlot wasn't the best choice for where I live, but when you don't know what you don't know starting out in this venture... bound to be some setbacks. I really knew the score after talking to a local iconic wine master in the region last Saturday. Today I dug up 4 Merlot vines and planted 6 new Pinot Noir Precoce vines. More on that in the vineyard section.

Dave

 

[winemaker81]

My Chambourcin and Vidal are both acidic tasting, and while I'm considering various strategies, cold stabilization is the choice with the fewest possible side effects. But where I live, not having a second fridge that's large enough, it's not feasible.

Or is it. The carboys fit inside a 32 gallon Brute, so in the winter when my cellar temperature is lowest (typically 58 F), I'm going to put a carboy in a Brute and surround it with ice. In theory it should work, and all it will cost is some labor and a few (or maybe a lot) of bags of ice.

 

[Ohio Bob]

Is there any chance of even coming close to drinkable in your opinions, before I go through the pressing stage and the racking and then bottling 12-15 bottles other than for the experience and fun of it?

Absolutely! Your possibly tasting the effect of CO2 in the wine. Give it a few months then decide if it’s just too high in acid, back sweetening might do wonders. If all else fails, keep them for blending in future wines that may be too sweet.

 

[cmason1957]

My Chambourcin and Vidal are both acidic tasting, and while I'm considering various strategies, cold stabilization is the choice with the fewest possible side effects. But where I live, not having a second fridge that's large enough, it's not feasible.

Or is it. The carboys fit inside a 32 gallon Brute, so in the winter when my cellar temperature is lowest (typically 58 F), I'm going to put a carboy in a Brute and surround it with ice. In theory it should work, and all it will cost is some labor and a few (or maybe a lot) of bags of ice.

I have a fridge large enough for two carboys or a 20 gallon Brute. Missouri isn't that far from you, we could meet and I keep part.

Just kidding, but I always cold stabilize my Chambourcin. Doesn't matter what the ph is.

 

[David Engel]

Hi All,

WOW, what a first ever "press day". I'm glad I bought some extra 1 gallon carboys... (should have had a couple 3 gallon carboys, but had no concept of juice quantity from grape quantity and weight of said grapes). Ended up with 3 gallons of free run, and 1 3/4 gallons of press juice. Pressing was fun and had no issues at all really. I love the YouTube videos where the guys just pour the bucket into the press, free run overflowing the tray, must flying everywhere.

The numbers right prior to press were SG .998, brix -1 and the sour number being ph was 2.99. Here's where I'll need your help a little later. The settling of the lees was just incredible to see happen so fast. In 2 days I'll be racking. Here are some photos from the garage wine lab. Hmmm, I've heard that term "garage wine" in one of my favorite wine movies.

 

[ChuckD]

Hi All,

WOW, what a first ever "press day". I'm glad I bought some extra 1 gallon carboys... (should have had a couple 3 gallon carboys, but had no concept of juice quantity from grape quantity and weight of said grapes). Ended up with 3 gallons of free run, and 1 3/4 gallons of press juice. Pressing was fun and had no issues at all really. I love the YouTube videos where the guys just pour the bucket into the press, free run overflowing the tray, must flying everywhere.

The numbers right prior to press were SG .998, brix -1 and the sour number being ph was 2.99. Here's where I'll need your help a little later. The settling of the lees was just incredible to see happen so fast. In 2 days I'll be racking. Here are some photos from the garage wine lab. Hmmm, I've heard that term "garage wine" in one of my favorite wine movies.
View attachment 106730View attachment 106729

Congratulations! The wine cares not in which room it is fermented!