Pruning Grape Vines

[Handy Andy]

I purchased 3 established vine yards on wires, and another growing over rocks and trellises. They were not pruned at the beginning of last season, due to me not being able to get here, due to Covid Lockdowns. Most of the leaves are now gone, and I am thinking it is about time to start and prune.

How many shoots should I have of the main root stock, and how many buds should those shoots ideally have, and which shoots should I cut of and which should I leave? Where do I start ?

I also had a problem with Downy Mildew this season, can I treat the vines before new leaves appear in the spring to prevent the mildew problem getting a hold, if so what with?

 

[NorCal]

Hey, HA. Some picture would help a lot.

 

[Handy Andy]

Hey, HA. Some picture would help a lot.

When it stops raining today, I will wander down the vineyards and take some picks, of the vines.

Ate logo!

 

[VinesnBines]

You can use copper as a dormant spray for downy mildew.
https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/its_n...owny mildew pathogen,land on the soil surface.

 

[Handy Andy]

I had to reduce the resolution of the pics to get them to upload.

 

[Handy Andy]

The Alverino and American Tinte look like the youngest vines. The Verdelo looks like its been around a bit longer and is the vineyard that was heavily affected by downy mildew. I didnt pay much attention to the Trellis's this year but took 30 litres of wine from them

 

[Rice_Guy]

Starting? There are rules as buds per arm per year age modified by how much winter damage which haven’t sunk in enough that I follow them.
My process is to look at the trunk and ask where do I want it a year in the future? I select two healthy cordons that are the framework of old wood, others from the previous season are clipped off. (some have extra wires and cordons) Everything is clipped at four feet/ a little over a meter, from that I start trimming back to have a controlled growth on second year wood for fruit, ten or so buds per cordon. I don’t count but instead work with four feet and space buds out every six or eight inches. . . . a zone five hybrid variety point of view, for this zone I will prune in March before bud break.

 

[NorCal]

I agree with @Rice_Guy, I would establish guiding principles and then apply those principles in the best way possible.
I tend to work backwards, with a target cluster load on the plant (say 24, which is light, but what I use for head trained vines) Then I determine if am going to keep one or two clusters per shoot (say 2) which will drive how many shoots I want (12) and how I prune (2 buds x 6) on last years wood. I don’t have the threat of frost, so I can pretty much count on each bud to go the distance.

 

[Handy Andy]

Starting? There are rules as buds per arm per year age modified by how much winter damage which haven’t sunk in enough that I follow them.

We dont get frosts here, the minimum temperature is 8C typically 15C this time of year rising to 25C in the summer.

My process is to look at the trunk and ask where do I want it a year in the future? I select two healthy cordons that are the framework of old wood, others from the previous season are clipped off . (some have extra wires and cordons) Everything is clipped at four feet/ a little over a meter, from that I start trimming back to have a controlled growth on second year wood for fruit, ten or so buds per cordon.

What is a cordon? A quick google reveals that vines have trunks, which split into cordons, which "can" have arms coming from them. The shoots (spurs) come from the cordons and arms OK.

My vines appear to have everything!

My trellis's have big trunks, and cordons with arms going for maybe 5 - 10metres, I did have one which climbed up the back of the house, but I cut it down.

The vineyards have typically 2 cordons with newer shoots coming from them, some are maybe 2 metres long, others are only a metre. There are lots of shoots from some cordons and few from others. Many of the cordons\trunks go in one direction ie they dont split, others have been bent\trained to go both ways.

My vines are older than 2 years, (age less than 20 ears old)
The trellis's cover a lot of area not shown on the photos. Those vines\cordons are long, and they have lots of shoots, should I cut them back to 2 metres, or allow them to grow

When you select two healthy spurs as cordons do you remove last years cordons, or allow more spurs to grow from them????

I notice the vines seem to have brown shoots with green bits coming from them. By healthy do you mean the greener shoots, or drier brown shoots?

 

[NorCal]

Kind of hard to see, but I would prune at these locations, leaving two bud opportunities from last years wood. May have missed some on the end, but you get the idea.

 

[VinesnBines]

My first suggestion is to get someone with experience to help you. It looks like you need a chain saw for some of the vines.
My next suggestion would be to research pruning and watch some videos.
i am sure you can get it in shape but they look like they need work.
Nevertheless you have a beautiful location.

 

[Rice_Guy]

..growers in Europe have vines where the trunk is one hundred years old, the way grapes grow buds are produced on most parts of the plant every year, normal trunk maintenance i keeping the buds from taking off, ,,, a few times in summer wipe off sprouts or if big prune them.
.. I have one wire therefore I are two cordons (arms) going up and down the wire. These again could be a hundred years old in an established vineyard. The cordon itself does not produce grapes. What it does do is hold young wood up in the air and have buds that will sprout in the future. The color is more of a gray and for my age plants could be an inch (fairly old) down to 3/8 inch diameter (fairly young)
.. two year old wood (AKA what grew last summer) is a reddish brown color and fairly flexible and roughly the diameter of a pen. You could accidentally remove all fruit buds and the plant would survive BUT you would not get any fruit this crop year! I typically count two buds and then trim the rest off. ,,, you can always trim back more in summer
.. flowers in many varieties are self fertile, extra buds develop to grow leaves and this years shoots

@NorCal looks like he has a two wire system and based on diameter his trunk and cordons are older than mine. My oldest plants are seven years old therefore there are more experienced growers in WMT.
What else, grapes are weeds that are trying to grow up into the trees. Grapes are very sensitive to 2-4-D therefore don’t spray for dandelions. California is a dryer climate so less spraying than me, fungus loves humidity. We can grow new plants by putting cuttings in soil or potting mix, ,,, from this stage to the first harvest is roughly five years.

clusters at flower stage, spraying is needed for black rot lesions
this plant should be seven years, note stem and cordons are similar size.

 

[patrikthehun]

Hi,
I would like to recommend this video series. It's long, it's slow but it kinda sinks in and gives a full picture.


Looks like a very nice patch and with a little renewal of the wines it will probably give you a bigger crop in a couple of years.
Good luck and enjoy!

 

[VinesnBines]

Excellent RiceGuy!
I'll be happy to come visit after COVID is gone and help you out!

 

[Rice_Guy]

you may have to fight off the neighbor in the white house, he got the row of concord last September, a lot of what I ferment is elderberry/ gooseberry/ rhurbarb/ choke cherry/apple, ,,, have a good crop of dandelions to share, ,,,, from the posts I take it you are up north

I'll be happy to come visit after COVID is gone and help you out!

 

[VinesnBines]

you may have to fight off the neighbor in the white house, he got the row of concord last September, a lot of what I ferment is elderberry/ gooseberry/ rhurbarb/ choke cherry/apple, ,,, have a good crop of dandelions to share, ,,,, from the posts I take it you are up north

I'm ready to travel and help with all vineyard chores!

I'm attempting to grow grapes in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia; sort of the cusp of Zones 6b and 6a.

I usually have a good dandelion crop; I just need labor to help pick. The grandchildren will pick a few but only to be given as presents or put in a vase. I've only managed a gallon of dandelion wine a year due to the labor shortage.

 

[Handy Andy]

you may have to fight off the neighbor in the white house, he got the row of concord last September, a lot of what I ferment is elderberry/ gooseberry/ rhurbarb/ choke cherry/apple, ,,, have a good crop of dandelions to share, ,,,, from the posts I take it you are up north

I had a little look on the internet, and found a new term "VINEZILLA", I have at least 6 of these and many mutating into ZILLAS. The woodland below my vineyards is full of Vinezillas.

Is that "THE" White House, I was there a few years back, when the lady of the house grew her own vegetables, with the help of child helpers/laborers on the front lawn

 

[Rice_Guy]

I'm attempting to grow grapes in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia; sort of the cusp of Zones 6b and 6a.

Blue Ridge is pretty country, have wandered through since one kid and a couple grandkids are in Arlington, the coast seems to work for growing grapes ,,,, quite a few wineries within a two hour drive.
@Handy Andy don’t we’all wish, ,,, THE white farm house is behind all the vines,

 

[balatonwine]

Maybe look at my playlist on taming a neglected vineyard:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCB1DU0r0xtmFMKaF-rLBL9A/playlists
Such as:



Ask me questions if you have any.

 

[balatonwine]

Kind of hard to see, but I would prune at these locations, leaving two bud opportunities from last years wood. May have missed some on the end, but you get the idea.

Personally, I find those cuts too high. For one thing, the vertical trellis design is too short for such high cuts. And the second reason is in a neglected vineyard, I would prune more radically to bring it back into a proper pruning format, even if one gets a smaller crop that year, it will pay dividends for years afterwards.

Zooming in on your picture, for example, shows buds circled in blue. I would rather cut on the blue line.