Question about Gelatin as fining agent

[WhisperCloud]

Hi everyone. This is my first time trying to use Gelatine to make a clearer White and Red wine. Making White wine from Sultana-type grapes which had a pretty high sugar content(1125 on hydrometer and planning to make it sparkle wine) and red from black grapes with around 1184 on hydrometer). They are both in the Primary fermentation container for now. I wondered if I could add Gelatine when I move them to the secondary fermentation stage, close it up for a month or so, and then just rack it off into my bottles, which would mean leaving the Gelatine sediment for a month. Is that a no-go? Or is it better to break the seal and add Gelatine a week before racking off the bottles? Wouldn't that cause oxidation since I have to open the sealed container and reseal it?
Secondly, Do you have a recommendation on how much Gelatine to add to my white and red?

 

[wood1954]

Is there a lot of tannin in the wine?

 

[WhisperCloud]

Is there a lot of tannin in the wine?

Not sure to know be honest. I had 2 days of skin contact with for my red

 

[winemaker81]

If your Sultana OG was 1.125, you may have trouble getting a secondary fermentation in the bottle.

Why are you using gelatine? Have you read about what it does? I suggest you read the following page before continuing:

https://www.awri.com.au/industry_su...ently_asked_questions/fining_agents/#gelatine

Why are you trying to bottle so quickly? You're far more likely to get sediment in the bottle, even with the use of a fining agent.

 

[WhisperCloud]

If your Sultana OG was 1.125, you may have trouble getting a secondary fermentation in the bottle.

Why are you using gelatine? Have you read about what it does? I suggest you read the following page before continuing:

https://www.awri.com.au/industry_su...ently_asked_questions/fining_agents/#gelatine

Why are you trying to bottle so quickly? You're far more likely to get sediment in the bottle, even with the use of a fining agent.

Do you recommend I wait longer before bottling?
I plan to wait 30-40 days after the fermentation is over (hydrometer showing 1000) to allow the sediments to settle. Then I want to start bottling the wine.
I wanted to use Gelatine to make a clearer product. Was wondering if I could add Gelatine and just leave it for a long time before bottling. I usually read you have to rack in 2-3 weeks.

 

[winemaker81]

Do you recommend I wait longer before bottling?

I don't bottle before 4 months. Wine goes through a lot of chemical changes during the first 4 to 12 months, so waiting to bottle helps ensure bottle consistency (all bottles taste alike) and ensures the wine is clear. Note that while wine continues to change during its entire lifespan, that initial period has the most rapid changes.

If it were me, I'd bottle the Sultana in 4 to 6 months, looking at the wine to decide when. For the Black grapes, 6 to 9 months. Don't be in a hurry.

I wanted to use Gelatine to make a clearer product

There are a lot of fining agents, and while they all induce particles to drop as sediment, they all have side effects. If you haven't, read the page I mentioned.

I don't normally use fining agents in reds, and may use bentonite in whites. For reds, mine are aged 12+ months and clear on their own with time. For whites, bentonite clears protein haze and a lack of clarity is far more obvious, so I may use it.

When using a fining agent, I use a low dosage, as it's easy to over-fine a wine and strip out desired characteristics.

Gelatine is fine for both your wines. Read the section on Gelatine, and look at the dosage chart.

White: recommended dosage 15-120 mg/L. I'd use 30 to 60 mg/L

Red: recommended dosage 30-240 mg/L. I'd use 60 to 120 mg/L

 

[WhisperCloud]

I don't bottle before 4 months. Wine goes through a lot of chemical changes during the first 4 to 12 months, so waiting to bottle helps ensure bottle consistency (all bottles taste alike) and ensures the wine is clear. Note that while wine continues to change during its entire lifespan, that initial period has the most rapid changes.

If it were me, I'd bottle the Sultana in 4 to 6 months, looking at the wine to decide when. For the Black grapes, 6 to 9 months. Don't be in a hurry.


There are a lot of fining agents, and while they all induce particles to drop as sediment, they all have side effects. If you haven't, read the page I mentioned.

I don't normally use fining agents in reds, and may use bentonite in whites. For reds, mine are aged 12+ months and clear on their own with time. For whites, bentonite clears protein haze and a lack of clarity is far more obvious, so I may use it.

When using a fining agent, I use a low dosage, as it's easy to over-fine a wine and strip out desired characteristics.

Gelatine is fine for both your wines. Read the section on Gelatine, and look at the dosage chart.

White: recommended dosage 15-120 mg/L. I'd use 30 to 60 mg/L

Red: recommended dosage 30-240 mg/L. I'd use 60 to 120 mg/L

Thank you for the detailed advice. Can I bottle the Sultana in 4-6 months and still make it sparkling by adding some dextrose to the bottles?

 

[winemaker81]

Thank you for the detailed advice. Can I bottle the Sultana in 4-6 months and still make it sparkling by adding some dextrose to the bottles?

Glad to be of help!

If the Sultana OG was 1.125, you're looking at 17% ABV IF the wine ferments to completion. Sparkling the wine requires a renewed fermentation in the bottle, so you'll need a yeast such as EC-1118, which has a high ABV tolerance. And there is no guarantee that will work.

For making a sparkling wine, use champagne bottles. Beer bottles cannot handle normal sparkling wine pressures, and regular wine bottles should never be used for sparkling wines, as they are unrated for pressure and far more likely to explode.

 

[WhisperCloud]

Glad to be of help!

If the Sultana OG was 1.125, you're looking at 17% ABV IF the wine ferments to completion. Sparkling the wine requires a renewed fermentation in the bottle, so you'll need a yeast such as EC-1118, which has a high ABV tolerance. And there is no guarantee that will work.

For making a sparkling wine, use champagne bottles. Beer bottles cannot handle normal sparkling wine pressures, and regular wine bottles should never be used for sparkling wines, as they are unrated for pressure and far more likely to explode.

The Sultana turned out much sweeter than I expected. Maybe I should Have added water in the beginning but anyway. I used EC1118 for both red and white so hopefully I can pull off the sparkling

 

[winemaker81]

The Sultana turned out much sweeter than I expected. Maybe I should Have added water in the beginning but anyway. I used EC1118 for both red and white so hopefully I can pull off the sparkling

Next time you try Sultana, target an SG of 1.090 to 1.100

 

[Obbnw]

... they are unrated for pressure and far more likely to explode.

This year I had a bottle break. I use these 1.5 liter bottles to store wine that didn't fit in the carboy and use it for topping off etc. Usually I'll open the top every few days to let off any pressure but this year I had to leave town for several weeks. Even though I never noticed any pressure release when cracking the cap before I left and there was no noticeable fermentation activity in its companion carboy, one of the bottles broke after about a week. What a mess... At least my wife saw it while I was gone and texted me the picture below. I had her check the other bottles before they exploded. She said the companion bottle to this one really bubbled a lot and for a long time.



I was really surprised the cap held the pressure, I would have thought the cap would leak before the bottle broke.

 

[winemaker81]

I was really surprised the cap held the pressure, I would have thought the cap would leak before the bottle broke.

Is that a metal cap? It makes a tight seal and the metal won't deform until that pressure.

I researched this a couple of years ago -- unrated bottles are good for something like 1 to 3 PSI, which is very little. The weakest spot can blow when the pressure exceeds its capacity.

 

[Obbnw]

Is that a metal cap? It makes a tight seal and the metal won't deform until that pressure.

I researched this a couple of years ago -- unrated bottles are good for something like 1 to 3 PSI, which is very little. The weakest spot can blow when the pressure exceeds its capacity.

The metal cap that came with the bottle, but I usually don't really tighten them.

I must have tightened it down more than I intended. Once tight they do form a good seal and I have stored wine in them for at least a year with no detrimental effects.

Thanks for the bottle info. I thought your bottle warning was great info and needed to be emphasized.

 

[winemaker81]

The metal cap that came with the bottle, but I usually don't really tighten them.

I must have tightened it down more than I intended. Once tight they do form a good seal and I have stored wine in them for at least a year with no detrimental effects.

Thanks for the bottle info. I thought your bottle warning was great info and needed to be emphasized.

Two years ago I had a situation similar to yours. Mine wasn't as tragic as I used a plastic cap, so the excess pressure deformed the plastic. If that hadn't happened, I'd have had an explosion. It's detailed here:

https://wine.bkfazekas.com/clearing-wine-without-geysers/