Raspberry concentrate

[silverbullet07]

@hounddawg @winemaker81 @Rice_Guy @Scooter68 @reeflections @sour_grapes @cmason1957

This is a continuation of the issue I am having with my concentrates not fermenting dry.
this is a new batch of raspberry. seems to stalled at the same SG 1.010 Again

5.5 gal raspberry. Used K1-V1116 added yeast nutrients

SG 1.110 PH 3.32

4-27 pitched yeast. Kept room 70 degrees, on pallet
stirred 2 x a day
5-1 SG 1.030 - added 2 tsp additional nutrient.
5-3 SG 1.010 - placed lid on bucket air locked
5-6 SG 1.010
5-8 SG 1.010

On Currently in primary bucket with lid and air locked. It’s been 11 days, Should I keep waiting? Continue to leave in primary bucket? Been 1.010 5 days.

Seems no matter what I do, my concentrates will not go dry. I started it at SG 1.110 thinking it would stop at 1.010 and it looks it has.

seems adding the pallet did not work. Adding nutrient at 1.030 did not work.

 

[Rice_Guy]

pH looks good, I am there often
gravity is high which could cause the issue
* what is the TA? you could consider removing some with calcium carbonate like cranberry folks do, basically start with a milder pH of 3.4 or 3.5
* oxygen? meads get restarted by whipping air in
* step feeding is done on some hard ferments, in this case hold some juice in the fridge and add concentrate when the innoculated active ferment gets down to 1.015 or 1,020

SG 1.110 PH 3.32, , , 5.5 gal raspberry. Used K1-V1116 added yeast nutrients

 

[silverbullet07]

pH looks good, I am there often
gravity is high which could cause the issue
* what is the TA? you could consider removing some with calcium carbonate like cranberry folks do, basically start with a milder pH of 3.4 or 3.5
* oxygen? meads get restarted by whipping air in
* step feeding is done on some hard ferments, in this case hold some juice in the fridge and add concentrate when the innoculated active ferment gets down to 1.015 or 1,020

I used calcium carbonate to get the ph from 2.8 to 3.4. Used 11 tsp.
the high SG was because they stop at 1.010 no matter if I start them it at 1.090. Been there stopped and only had 10%. So increased to 1.110 so now 13.4%.
I stirred all the way to 1.010 and after.

 

[winemaker81]

Is this the Colonna (sp?) concentrate?

Since this is a consistent issue for you, the cause is probably something in the ingredients, environment, and/or process. Nothing you've described sounds like a problem, so I suspect the ingredients.

K1-V1116 appears to be a good choice -- however, the Lalvin facts sheet says it needs lots O2. I suggest taking the lid off, and continue stirring daily. Dosing it with EC-1118 is a possibility, although the K1 should be fine.

Don't start with an SG above 1.100. From reading a lot of posts, this appears to be a dividing line above which folks have more problems. In my own experience, I've fermented 6 batches of grapes in the last couple years with SG of 1.100 to 1.102, and had no problems.

 

[silverbullet07]

Is this the Colonna (sp?) concentrate?

Since this is a consistent issue for you, the cause is probably something in the ingredients, environment, and/or process. Nothing you've described sounds like a problem, so I suspect the ingredients.

K1-V1116 appears to be a good choice -- however, the Lalvin facts sheet says it needs lots O2. I suggest taking the lid off, and continue stirring daily. Dosing it with EC-1118 is a possibility, although the K1 should be fine.

Don't start with an SG above 1.100. From reading a lot of posts, this appears to be a dividing line above which folks have more problems. In my own experience, I've fermented 6 batches of grapes in the last couple years with SG of 1.100 to 1.102, and had no problems.

when I did fresh fruit it has been no problem. Seems only with concentrates. It has been colonnade and another. Starting SG did not matter either. My first was only 1.090 And stopped at 1.010.

I guess I’ll just start at 1.110 and plan it stopping at 1.010. all my fruit need back sweeten anyway.

 

[hounddawg]

sounds like a real conundrum, only trouble even close to this is,, I got lazy and started a apple with a SG 1.140, it went all the way to dry , but it took me better than 3 weeks, but a SG of 1.100 to 1.120 always go clean to dry, and i only keep EC-1118 and K1V-1116,,, but after that apple i keep all mine SSG of 1.100 or lower..., on this particular problem,,, I'm clueless,,, AND TO ALL THE REST OF YAWI, yes I know I am clueless on everything,,,
Dawg

 

[winemaker81]

I guess I’ll just start at 1.110 and plan it stopping at 1.010. all my fruit need back sweeten anyway.

I'm with @hounddawg, don't start above 1.100. If you want a higher ABV, step feed the wine.

If using concentrate, try a different brand. The 2 you've tried should not be stopping at 1.010.

 

[hounddawg]

I'm with @hounddawg, don't start above 1.100. If you want a higher ABV, step feed the wine.

If using concentrate, try a different brand. The 2 you've tried should not be stopping at 1.010.

yep, that puzzles the heck out of me, i seen where @silverbullet07 on one was a 5.5 must, so it should not be stress the yeast,

 

[hounddawg]

I'm with @hounddawg, don't start above 1.100. If you want a higher ABV, step feed the wine.

If using concentrate, try a different brand. The 2 you've tried should not be stopping at 1.010.

yep, that puzzles the heck out of me, i seen where @silverbullet07 on one was a 5.5 must, so it should not be stress the yeast, and I've done a colomafrozen concentrate or two, i got from them peach and pear, which I had planed to have already started, but life got in the way, fixing fence, planting the garden, and a few more things, tomorrow will be spent at my parents home,, and my brother said we are in for several days of rain, i doubt I'll start in muggy weather, this treak makes breathing tough, doe kno
Dawg

 

[Arne]

Have you checked your hydrometer to make sure it is reading right? Arne.

 

[silverbullet07]

Have you checked your hydrometer to make sure it is reading right? Arne.

Yes.

 

[silverbullet07]

I'm with @hounddawg, don't start above 1.100. If you want a higher ABV, step feed the wine.

If using concentrate, try a different brand. The 2 you've tried should not be stopping at 1.010.

The first raspberry I did was 1.090 ph 3.37 and stopped at 1.010.
peach was 1.098 ph 3.39 and stopped at 1.010
blackberry was 1.116 ph 3.34 stopped at 1.010
second raspberry 1.110 ph 3.32 stopped at 1.010

The last couple I started them higher knowing they will stop at 1.010 So I have at least 12% potential after back sweeten.

 

[cmason1957]

I wonder if pulling out enough wine to float your hydrometer and then heating it to drive off CO2 might help?

 

[silverbullet07]

I wonder if pulling out enough wine to float your hydrometer and then heating it to drive off CO2 might help?

I doubt it. After 7 months aging the SG never changed on my other one.

 

[Michael T]

@silverbullet07 Can you taste residual sugar with these that have stuck at 1.010 ?
I am "Coloma curious"

 

[silverbullet07]

@silverbullet07 Can you taste residual sugar with these that have stuck at 1.010 ?
I am "Coloma curious"

I can not tell. I have to back sweeten anyway for the fruits I do and don’t seem to taste it but my wine is fruit heavy and bold.

 

[hounddawg]

what about your water sconce ?
Dawg

 

[silverbullet07]

what about your water sconce ?
Dawg

Natural well water. Have a large filtration system that removes all iron and hardness. However it is the same water I use on the ones I ferment with fruit and it goes dry. Only difference between what I do has been ph. With my fruit i checked ph on them and they were 3.53-3.55 while my concentrates have been 3.35-3.38. Lots of people shoot for 3.38 so don’t see that an issue.

 

[hounddawg]

no, i was spit balling.
Dawg

 

[Scooter68]

Two things to think about one you probably can resolve immediately. How long after you added the calcium carbonate did you check the pH? That stuff works slow so if you checked say 30 - 90 mins after adding, the pH may have changed even more up into like 3.8 or higher. If you have to add calcium carbonate I'd wait at least 8-12 hours before pitching yeast so that I can be certain I didn't over shoot the addition. (Raise the numbers too high.) 11 tsp is a LOT of that stuff to add at one time. Personally I'd be tempted to go ahead and start a batch if the pH was anywhere between 3.15 and 3.6. I've had a blueberry do fine starting at 3.18 so if other conditions are good I would make a run at a batch that was a below 3.4 but never above 3.6.
Number two - I'd try to get that room temp up. I don't seem to recall many issues when the room temp is in the mid to upper 70s.
Of course the step feeding could help but if a must starts at 1.090 and still stalls....

Hope it doesn't turn out be the fruit source because there are fewer and fewer good reliable sources of fruit concentrates these days.