Repitching wine/yeast/lees?malolactic bacteria, slurry, that has gone through Malolactic Ferm. to inoculate a new batch in 6 months??

[bloombrews]

I have had great success storing beer yeast harvested from the bottom of my Conical fermentor tanks, kept them in the fridge, and repitched months later into fresh unfermented beer (wort).
Has anyone stored (by freezing or in a sterile jar, kept cold in the fridge) a half gallon or less of the dregs (from 12 gallon batches) that should contain viable malolactic bacteria, yeast, and some lees, ? My Pinot is now going through a ML fermentation.
Not sure if ML Bacteria settles out to the bottom of the conical tanks, like yeast does, and can be kept in the freezer or fridge?
MB, is quite expensive ($39/2.5 grams USD), so I am thinking of keeping a nice quart or so of the bottom cake, from my Fall wine, freezing it, and repitching this, come Spring time, when we can get Southern Hemisphere juice. I would repitch this after primary fermentation, when I want the wine to undergo MLF.

 

[Obbnw]

I have had great success storing beer yeast harvested from the bottom of my Conical fermentor tanks, kept them in the fridge, and repitched months later into fresh unfermented beer (wort).
Has anyone stored (by freezing or in a sterile jar, kept cold in the fridge) a half gallon or less of the dregs (from 12 gallon batches) that should contain viable malolactic bacteria, yeast, and some lees, ? My Pinot is now going through a ML fermentation.
Not sure if ML Bacteria settles out to the bottom of the conical tanks, like yeast does, and can be kept in the freezer or fridge?
MB, is quite expensive ($39/2.5 grams USD), so I am thinking of keeping a nice quart or so of the bottom cake, from my Fall wine, freezing it, and repitching this, come Spring time, when we can get Southern Hemisphere juice. I would repitch this after primary fermentation, when I want the wine to undergo MLF.

Great question, wish I knew the answer. I've been wondering that as well.

I have had good luck with just throwing a couple of cups from a finishing ferment into a new ferment instead of pitching new yeast.

Yeast is so cheap I don't think I'd bother trying to save it for next year but I agree the MLB is expensive and it would be nice if there was a way to store/save it.

 

[winemaker81]

Yeast is so cheap I don't think I'd bother trying to save it for next year but I agree the MLB is expensive and it would be nice if there was a way to store/save it.

ditto

 

[bloombrews]

@Obbnw , Yeast is cheap, but if you brew Lager beers, your pitch % to Wort volume is quite high, and worth saving the yeast so you do not have to buy multiple packs of beer yeast. BUT !! (sorry, this is not Homebrewtalk.com)
But, the eventual mutation of yeasts and bacteria, is certain, but I can not find any information on saving a wine that has just finished MLF, and saving the cake, at the bottom of your vessel......
You can wash yeast, after you collect it, but what about MLBacteria???
I hope We can find someone to chime in, and tell us, from their Experience, what can be done to successfully collect MLB in suspension with the Cake, and some of the Wine near the bottom......
If not, I will definately "do It", and post my results, with instrument proof, of success, or failure...
Thanks, and enjoy the upcoming Ski season in the Wasatch Mts!

 

[Obbnw]

Thanks, and enjoy the upcoming Ski season in the Wasatch Mts!

I always do ; )

I told my company I want to retire or take a possibly never ending sabbatical starting Dec 1 so hopefully more ski days!

 

[Gilmango]

As a beer brewer I do this all the time, not just with ale and lager yeasts but also with brettanonomyces 'wild' yeast, lacto, pedio and other funk or sour producing bacteria or wild yeasts. Sometimes I save slurry in the fridge, more often I brew the same day I bottle and pitch the cooled wort on the 'yeast cake' or portions of it.

I'm guessing MLB would work similarly well. But they do price it high, for tiny amounts, and suggest you keep it frozen -- all of which suggests a pretty finicky bacteria. So perhaps trying to do the 'back-to-back' batch method is best, which is the second one I mentioned above, skipping any fridge time.

As everyone said already, love to hear from folks who have done this before.

 

[bloombrews]

Another MLF question, and Alcohol fermentation question
My ending gravity of the Pinot Noirs, in the Unitanks, is .998. I have not made wine since 2017 in glass carboys, but now I am using Unitank Conicals that can hold pressure by design. Question - why do I get a lot of CO2 gas when I close up the blowoff for , say, 24 hours and then open the valve into the blowoff water bucket? It is enough to build pressure up to 2 psi or more. This was before MLF, but after the ending gravity is well below 1.00 Now with MLF, I am getting even faster CO2 buildup overnight. I can not find online searches, how much CO2 gas is created by the bacteria converting Malic acid into Lactic acid. Only (my MLF question) - "Creamy, Buttery, Softer, " by-products. Maybe it is NOT a good idea to close up the blowoff valve, at all.
I did this, so as to prevent water from traveling backwards, up the blowoff tube, when I let the wine slow cool down to 72 from 79. The liquid shrinkage will lead to a slight vacuum in the tank, and pull water backwards, especially when one would Cold Crash your beverage. Funky smelling water with some Star-san in it, is not very tasty in beer or wine.... UGH!
Thanks in advance, for sharing your thoughts and knowledge.

 

[winemaker81]

Question - why do I get a lot of CO2 gas when I close up the blowoff for , say, 24 hours and then open the valve into the blowoff water bucket?

Post-fermentation, wine has a lot of dissolved CO2, which degasses naturally over time. This typically takes months to complete. At this time I don't see any value in closing the blowoff valve. You want the CO2 to escape.

MLF produces CO2, but I hear varying stories regarding how much. I don't have an answer regarding that, but my impression is it's a lot less than fermentation.

I wonder if different MLB strains produce differing amounts of CO2. Given how much wine yeast varies, I'll not be surprised if that is correct.

 

[bloombrews]

Post-fermentation, wine has a lot of dissolved CO2, which degasses naturally over time. This typically takes months to complete. At this time I don't see any value in closing the blowoff valve. You want the CO2 to escape.

MLF produces CO2, but I hear varying stories regarding how much. I don't have an answer regarding that, but my impression is it's a lot less than fermentation.

I wonder if different MLB strains produce differing amounts of CO2. Given how much wine yeast varies, I'll not be surprised if that is correct.

Good thought, @winemaker81! I used Lalvin VP41 MB. Different yeast certainly produce CO2 in vastly different amounts, so I guess Bacteria would also? Strange, I can't seem to find good answers online...
I will keep the blowoff valve open, as the temperature is being controlled by Fermentrack and is precise. So not much worry about volume cooling fast shrinkage