Result of using bourbon barrel

[Cedar Hill]

What's the goop around the rim of the lid? is it some kind of sealant? I was under the impression that barrels were made leak proof by pressure and swelling.

Barrels mostly seal by moisture swelling and internal pressure from the liquid inside.

Unfortunately, wood being an organic material, a perfect seal is nearly impossible, so for centuries , barrelmakers have used beeswax to seal drips on seams.

In modern times, commercially available barrel seal material is available, which is far more expensive and mostly made from beeswax.

Another tip from an old timer, if you don't nearly fill your barrel, you may want to rotate your barrel so that the seams not normally in contact with liquid don't dry out and leak.

I learned this stuff back in the 20th Century when my wife worked for Colonial Williamsburg and I got to hang out in the various craft shops.

 

[Brant]

What's the goop around the rim of the lid? is it some kind of sealant? I was under the impression that barrels were made leak proof by pressure and swelling.

When I re-cooped my barrel, I ended up using a paste made of flour and water on the heads. Filled with hot water and it hardly leaked at all. I found that the heads are the most difficult area to seal. Prior to using the paste, I spent a couple days trying to get it sealed without success. Almost gave up. Flour paste is legit.

 

[wood1954]

When I re-cooped my barrel, I ended up using a paste made of flour and water on the heads. Filled with hot water and it hardly leaked at all. I found that the heads are the most difficult area to seal. Prior to using the paste, I spent a couple days trying to get it sealed without success. Almost gave up. Flour paste is legit.

I’ll keep that in mind. My wife’s cousin lives in Boerne, we visited a few years ago , really nice area. Found a great place for rough sawn mesquite lumber.

 

[Brant]

I’ll keep that in mind. My wife’s cousin lives in Boerne, we visited a few years ago , really nice area. Found a great place for rough sawn mesquite lumber.

Yeah, feel pretty fortunate to live there. It's currently a decent place to raise a family and my wife and kids really like it. Not sure what it's going to turn into though. I fear it's going to start looking like California soon. There are a lot of people moving in.

 

[VinesnBines]

As promised, I checked barrels #3 (Midwest Barrel King's County Rye) and #4 (Midwest Barrel King's County Peated Whisky). I rinsed the barrels with water for 12 hours and then filled with my 2023 Chelois - filled on December 13. I pulled a sample from each, added my kmeta, added back oak cubes (the wine was on Hungarian oak cubes before the barrel and I saved the cubes, rinsed with vodka and added back to the wine to finish the oak) and topped up the barrels. I also poured a sample of the top up wine - oaked on Hungarian cubes for 6 weeks in a stainless keg. I let all three samples warm (cellar is 48 degrees F.) for about one hour. My husband and I tasted the three samples. I did tell him which sample was in which barrel but never indicated any concern of ash or char taste.

He did get a little whiskey in the Rye sample on the first taste but the whisky dissipated after the first taste. I didn't get any whiskey. The peated sample was the best of the three. It was smooth and mellow. No whisky, no oak and no ash. I'll leave everything alone for at least another month and then see where we are I wish I had two of the peated barrel. I expect both will be neutral after this batch so there won't be much if any difference.

I did not test Barrel #1 (Maple Syrup). It was not time to top up so I'll check it in about a month.

I realized that I didn't update Barrel #1 - a ten gallon Midwest bourbon barrel that held maple syrup. As background, I cleaned that barrel with Barrel Oxyclean and citric acid, then fermented a cider in the barrel. The cider was racked off on November 18, the barrel was again rinsed with Barrel Oyxfresh and citric acid. It was filled on November 20 with 2023 Chambourcin and roughly eight ounces of Hungarian oak cubes. When I topped the barrel on January 27, I pulled a sample. It was magnificent! The fruit aroma was strong and the taste was smooth and mellow. There was possibly a tiny bit of acid at the very tail. I'm expecting the acid to fade over the next two months. I would be perfectly happy to bottle now but I'm giving it at least two more months in the barrel. If I was repeating this sequence, I would skip the Barrel Oxyfresh and the cider fermentation and go straight to barrel aging. I would like to know how the maple syrup came through, if at all. Anyway, this barrel is more than meeting my expectations.

 

[tjmeyer]

Today I tasted the Marquette wine in the used 15 gallon bourbon barrel. It’s been about a month in barrel. It has a mild ashtray taste . No ashtray taste is ever good. Very disappointed. I’ll rack it all tomorrow to carboys and hope the taste goes away over the next nine months. Anyone want a used bourbon barrel?

Out of curiosity, how long did you leave it in? Small barrels are more difficult than larger ones because of the surface area to wine volume ratio. IIRC, it was something like 1 week per gallon? So a 60 gallon can do 60 weeks (year and half ish), 30 is 30 weeks (about the size limit for oaking AND aging in a barrel), etc. So a 15 gallon barrel I would be worried much about too much oak beyond 15 weeks.

 

[wood1954]

I have two 10 gallon Hungarian oak barrels that I age wine for 12 months in and there isn’t a lot of oak imparted. I’ve actually started adding American oak to the barrels to get more flavor.
As for my bourbon barrel, I took it apart and bandsawed off the heavy char and cleaned it up. Right now it is empty and smells very good when I check on it , I’ll add 15 gallons from my tenners in September and let that age another year. I truly love oaked wines.

 

[Brant]

Out of curiosity, how long did you leave it in? Small barrels are more difficult than larger ones because of the surface area to wine volume ratio. IIRC, it was something like 1 week per gallon? So a 60 gallon can do 60 weeks (year and half ish), 30 is 30 weeks (about the size limit for oaking AND aging in a barrel), etc. So a 15 gallon barrel I would be worried much about too much oak beyond 15 weeks.

here is my experience with a "newish" barrel...

i re-cooped a 20+ yo 15 gallon french barrel and toasted it (medium). i put holding solution in it for just shy of a full year and then cleaned it with barrel oxyfresh and thoroughly rinsed. the first batch of wine barely made it 2 months before it was ready, which is about 1/2 of your rule of thumb. i personally wouldn't trust that rule when it comes to smaller barrels.

 

[tjmeyer]

here is my experience with a "newish" barrel...

i re-cooped a 20+ yo 15 gallon french barrel and toasted it (medium). i put holding solution in it for just shy of a full year and then cleaned it with barrel oxyfresh and thoroughly rinsed. the first batch of wine barely made it 2 months before it was ready, which is about 1/2 of your rule of thumb. i personally wouldn't trust that rule when it comes to smaller barrels.

ouch! yeah, it's definitely something to taste for regularly!

 

[winemaker81]

Out of curiosity, how long did you leave it in? Small barrels are more difficult than larger ones because of the surface area to wine volume ratio. IIRC, it was something like 1 week per gallon? So a 60 gallon can do 60 weeks (year and half ish), 30 is 30 weeks (about the size limit for oaking AND aging in a barrel), etc. So a 15 gallon barrel I would be worried much about too much oak beyond 15 weeks.

That's what everything I read on small barrels says. I purchased 10 yo 54 liter barrels from an acquaintance, adding oak cubes for flavoring. Last fall I was given a 56 liter barrel that is 2 yo but only had wine for ~13 months. I'm watching that one, although the wine in it will be blended, so it if gets over-oaked, it will be diluted by at least 40%. For this reason I skipped adding cubes to the older barrel that has blending wine, and the third wine of the group is in glass.

I need to taste that wine tonight ...

 

[Brant]

That's what everything I read on small barrels says. I purchased 10 yo 54 liter barrels from an acquaintance, adding oak cubes for flavoring. Last fall I was given a 56 liter barrel that is 2 yo but only had wine for ~13 months. I'm watching that one, although the wine in it will be blended, so it if gets over-oaked, it will be diluted by at least 40%. For this reason I skipped adding cubes to the older barrel that has blending wine, and the third wine of the group is in glass.

I need to taste that wine tonight ...

13 months... That is very close to how long the holding solution was in mine. Curious to know how long your wine has been in that barrel and your thoughts on how it tastes (oak wise).

 

[winemaker81]

13 months... That is very close to how long the holding solution was in mine. Curious to know how long your wine has been in that barrel and your thoughts on how it tastes (oak wise).

It's been in barrel since November, about 5 months. I'm not getting a lot of oak in it. However, it is distinctly different from the top up wine. The barrel is smoother and richer, while the top up is a bit harsher (expect for a 6 mo heavy red) and fruitier. I much prefer the barrel, and expect to be happy with this one.

 

[Brant]

It's been in barrel since November, about 5 months. I'm not getting a lot of oak in it. However, it is distinctly different from the top up wine. The barrel is smoother and richer, while the top up is a bit harsher (expect for a 6 mo heavy red) and fruitier. I much prefer the barrel, and expect to be happy with this one.

Interesting. I wonder if wine tends to pulls more from the barrel than a holding solution does. The holding solution that I dumped out was significantly less acidic than a wine. I know because I tasted it after adding citric acid. I assumed it would be stronger but it's actually pretty mild. After sitting in the barrel for a year, it was definitely darker than when it went in (like a light whiskey color) and smelled oaky. I was hoping the holding solution would've tamed the barrel more than it did so I could hold wine longer on my first go. Might take a few batches before I can go a full year. Unfortunately those batches are big and expensive to make.

Edit... I guess we need to drink faster.

 

[winemaker81]

I wonder if wine tends to pulls more from the barrel than a holding solution does.

I suspect it does, due to both pH and alcohol.

I was iffy on the third barrel, but thought that at 2 yo, it was close enough to neutral. I still have my fingers crossed on that.

You may need to use holding solution between batches.

 

[Brant]

The thing that sold me on barrels... that 2 month wine tasted SO much better than the top up tasted. I cannot imagine what 6 to 12 does for it. Looking forward.

 

[Brant]

You may need to use holding solution between batches.

Exactly what I'm doing. Its not expensive but it is a PITA to fill.

As you said, barrels are a commitment!

 

[tjmeyer]

barrels are a commitment

true words!

 

[Brant]

For anyone wanting a barrel, I'd seriously consider buying a flextank instead. Less headache between batches. Easy to clean. Choose your oak option. Etc. If I ever decide to up my production, that is what I'll purchase.

 

[winemaker81]

For anyone wanting a barrel, I'd seriously consider buying a flextank instead. Less headache between batches. Easy to clean. Choose your oak option. Etc. If I ever decide to up my production, that is what I'll purchase.

No one will be wowed when they see your flex tank ... just sayin' ...

 

[Brant]

No one will be wowed when they see your flex tank ... just sayin' ...

Thats how I feel everytime I look at an electric car- regardless of how fast they supposedly are.

Edit: you're 1000% correct tho. Barrels are sexy. They have an unmistakable presence and air about them. Very rustic and authentic. They scream, "that's one badass winemaker".