Reverse Oxidation?

[M4rotku]

Hey all,

I am brewing my first grape wine kit after lots of experience with country wines. I have never had my other wines oxidize, and I am generally very careful to prevent it. However, I just tasted a sample of my shiraz blend kit that I decided to bulk age instead of bottling right away like the instructions said...and it tasted pretty oxidized. The sample sat around for about 5 hours before I drank it; it was the extra bit I had to pull out to make room for the clarifying agent and stirrer. So maybe it just oxidized in that short amount of time in a jar with a loose lid on it? If my wine is oxidized, is there any way to undo it? Would adding potassium metabosulphite now help? I added K meta and K sulphate the last time I racked it about 2 months ago. I hesitate to rack it again before bottling, but maybe I could purge the new vessel with CO2 first?

Thanks!

 

[Hazelemere]

Hey all,

I am brewing my first grape wine kit after lots of experience with country wines. I have never had my other wines oxidize, and I am generally very careful to prevent it. However, I just tasted a sample of my shiraz blend kit that I decided to bulk age instead of bottling right away like the instructions said...and it tasted pretty oxidized. The sample sat around for about 5 hours before I drank it; it was the extra bit I had to pull out to make room for the clarifying agent and stirrer. So maybe it just oxidized in that short amount of time in a jar with a loose lid on it? If my wine is oxidized, is there any way to undo it? Would adding potassium metabosulphite now help? I added K meta and K sulphate the last time I racked it about 2 months ago. I hesitate to rack it again before bottling, but maybe I could purge the new vessel with CO2 first?

Thanks!

no

 

[winemaker81]

Test the main container -- if it's not oxidized, you're fine.

I agree with @Hazelemere, once a wine is oxidized, it's not fixable. Hit it with another dose of K-meta and use it sooner than later.

 

[M4rotku]

Thanks guys. I put the clarifying agents in a few weeks ago, so there is a decent amount of sediment on the bottom. Is it worth racking to new containers in order to add the K-meta? Otherwise I plan to bottle out of the current carboy to avoid exposing it to more oxygen. Or do you think I could try to gently stir in K-meta in the current carboy without kicking up the sediment?

 

[M4rotku]

I think that the main container is a bit oxidize, but hopefully still drinkable. And I made the mistake of adding the sample I pulled back into the main container before realizing how oxidized it was.

 

[ratflinger]

Adding kmeta requires stirring, if added into the top of a carboy. I would add the kmeta to a new carboy and then rack into that.

Only thing that causes oxidation is exposure to air. Make sure your airlocks are working.

For my 1st rack out of the fermenter I use a 6.5 gallon carboy, leaves enough room for any additives and stirring. There is still enough CO2 coming off to blanket the surface.

Only other nit - we don't brew wine or maybe this is your problem.

 

[ratflinger]

I think that the main container is a bit oxidize, but hopefully still drinkable. And I made the mistake of adding the sample I pulled back into the main container before realizing how oxidized it was.

What are you racking into? If it's not a carboy then there is your problem, too much surface area. If it is a carboy, how full are you keeping it?

I would not bottle off of those lees unless you don't mind lees in your bottles. The exception would be if you are using something like a fermenting bucket to rack into, then yes I would immediately bottle too minimize any further oxidation risks.

Making kit wines is really no different from country wine once past the fermenting stage.

 

[M4rotku]

I have been using carboys for all of the secondary vessels. For primary, I used my stainless steel conical with an airlock. I have topped all of the carboys up with store-bought wine after every racking. As far as I can tell, the only time it may have been exposed to oxygen is when I opened the conical to add the oak chips at the end of the primary fermentation. And then I racked it off of the oak into a carboy 2 weeks later.

Thanks for the advice. I will rack it from my 6-gallon carboy to my 2 3-gallon carboys with K-meta in them and then top up with store wine. I might try to add some CO2 from my sodastream cannister to each carboy too. Then I will bottle out of those carboys.

 

[winemaker81]

At this point, I don't believe the minor air exposure of racking into a bucket is going to make any significant difference.

It's also possible it's not oxidation, but some other contamination -- your process sounds fine.

 

[M4rotku]

only other nit - we don't brew wine or maybe this is your problem.

I started with cider, so brew is still my default verb. Do we vint wine? Or just make it? Make seems so generic.

 

[winemaker81]

I started with cider, so brew is still my default verb. Do we vint wine? Or just make it? Make seems so generic.

Make. Or ferment.

 

[ratflinger]

I'm with Bryan about your process - sounds correct. Like he said, maybe it's something other than oxidation.

 

[vinny]

How old is this wine? I play with my wine and sometimes odd things happen. I have not liked any kit that was aged less than 5 months. 3 months minimum after the 6-8 weeks the kit recommends seems to be the sweet point where odd and unbalanced flavors disappear.

I had a bung pop on one of my carboys. I caught it in a reasonable time, 24 hours? but I was really questioning the wine ate every tasting after the fact. After bottling it tasted good, but seemed to be heavily oxygenated after the bottle was open a couple hours. It went away after a month when bottle shock mellowed. I had another that I opened 3 weeks after bottling. It smelled strongly of vinegar. Couldn't taste it at all. A month later, not a hint of it on the nose either.

It could be young, could need mellowing from the shock of fining agents? I dunno, but I would probably rack and see what I have in a month or so.

Adding kmeta requires stirring,

Not to say my way is right, but I mix k-meta in a shot class with a little water and dump in. I never stir.

 

[ratflinger]

Not to say my way is right, but I mix k-meta in a shot class with a little water and dump in. I never stir.

Well, I won't argue with success!

 

[M4rotku]

My wife and I just finished bottling it at 1:30 a.m. I have an awesome wife. It smelled good as we bottled it, maybe a little bit oxidized. I started the kit around January or February of this year. Thank you everyone for all your help!

 

[ratflinger]

Glad it worked out!

 

[Rice_Guy]

welcome to Wine Making Talk

* as a risk ranking, I would look at “kit flavor” / degradation of fruity aromatics in a vacuum concentrator being more likely than oxidation during the fermentation process.
* I describe low level acetaldehyde (oxidized ethyl alcohol) as pleasing, adding apricot sharp notes. A high level of acetaldehyde I describe as a burn in the back of the throat. Micro oxidation will produce nut like/ sherry like notes instead of the sharp notes from acetaldehyde.
* wine is a soup with a redox potential. There are a lot of chemicals detectable at ppm levels that are responsible for fruity aromatics. Once aromatics are oxidized they are gone forever. This is different than acetaldehyde which is still pleasing/ adds complexity at parts per thousand levels.
* As a wine maker/ cider maker if you can make good country wines your technique is good. Red grape with the tannin content has natural antioxidants, 200 years ago before metabisulphite the grandparents could make long shelf life red wine and be lucky to get six month shelf life out of low tannin country wines/ ciders.

 

[winemanden]

It is possible to get rid of a certain amount of oxidation using a solution of dried skimmed milk, BUT, it won't taste as good as an unoxidised wine.

 

[wineview]

Can you describe the oxidized taste.