Riesling from Blenheim Vineyards, New to Grapes

[MoldyGrapes]

All,

I was hoping to get a bit of advice, I have made 10 or so kit wines and wanted to expand my hobby by getting into frozen grape must and juice. My first attempt will be riesling from from Brehm Vineyards.

I have done some research and made the attached process, would anyone mind taking a look at it and seeing if I have erred in any way?

Large parts were pulled from the MoreWine! white guide.
https://morewinemaking.com/web_files/intranet.morebeer.com/files/wwhiw.pdf

The biggest question I have is on temperature. I have a basement, but no other way of keeping the fermentation stage cool, is a 65F cellar OK for this?

Also additives; as you can see from the my process, I will be using several, are all these actually helpful?

Thanks,

MoldyGrapes

 

[cmason1957]

First question, temp. 65 F is what you got, it would be better a bit colder, but it's what you got. You could freeze water bottles and put those into your fermenter, but I would just put it right on the basement floor, cover with an old blanket or something and let it rip.

Additives, never heard of or used Polycacel. If you have never introduced malolactic bacteria into your winemaking area, lysozyme probably isn't required either, since it is to inhibit malolactic fermentation. I would think you won't need any tartaric acid added, either, but for me that would be a taste determination, 3.23 ph is about perfect, the TA could use a bit of a increase, but again taste would decide for me. I've also never used Tannin Galalcool so I have no comment on it. Rest of it looks about like what I might do.

 

[MoldyGrapes]

First question, temp. 65 F is what you got, it would be better a bit colder, but it's what you got. You could freeze water bottles and put those into your fermenter, but I would just put it right on the basement floor, cover with an old blanket or something and let it rip.

Additives, never heard of or used Polycacel. If you have never introduced malolactic bacteria into your winemaking area, lysozyme probably isn't required either, since it is to inhibit malolactic fermentation. I would think you won't need any tartaric acid added, either, but for me that would be a taste determination, 3.23 ph is about perfect, the TA could use a bit of a increase, but again taste would decide for me. I've also never used Tannin Galalcool so I have no comment on it. Rest of it looks about like what I might do.

Thanks! I'll take another look at those additives, appreciate the once-over.

 

[JohnT]

For white wines, I normally only undergo MLF for Chardonnay. I like a crisp Riesling (and not a buttery one). That crispness would be lost with MLF. This is just me, but I have a soft spot for a crisp Riesling.

For a Riesling, I also do not like to add any tannins and keep the PH low (a TA of .70 or even higher), but again, this is just my tastes.

 

[MoldyGrapes]

For white wines, I normally only undergo MLF for Chardonnay. I like a crisp Riesling (and not a buttery one). That crispness would be lost with MLF. This is just me, but I have a soft spot for a crisp Riesling.

For a Riesling, I also do not like to add any tannins and keep the PH low (a TA of .70 or even higher), but again, this is just my tastes.

I probably should have been more clear, I plan to ferment till dry and forgo MLF. Thanks for the TA note, I'll keep that in mind when testing and tasting.

One more question, I was not planning to add any oak, either during fermentation or aging.

Most kits come with oak powder to add during fermentation, should I be adding some during fermentation of juice?

Thanks all for the info.

Regards,

 

[cmason1957]

Oak chips and dust in the primary don't provide much oak flavoring, but do provide tannins. You may want some tannin added at the begining to provide mouthfeel and structure. I haven't tasted an oaked reisling, some are available, but I wouldn't think it would be a good thing.

 

[MoldyGrapes]

Just an update, I asked Brehm Vineyards for some input as well and Peter Brehm got back to me with the following.

The essential additives follow - ferment from 22° to 10° as cool as possible.
This will help slow the fermentation and inhibit the loss of volitives.
-Yeast
-Fermaid K
-So2
-would recommend Lysozyme w/SO2 when dry or at your sweetness level.
-Bentonite to remove proteins - just before bottling.
I would not filter and fine only if necessary.

Seems I was going a bit additive heavy, so revised plan attached.

Thanks again all for the help.

 

[MoldyGrapes]

Oak chips and dust in the primary don't provide much oak flavoring, but do provide tannins. You may want some tannin added at the begining to provide mouthfeel and structure. I haven't tasted an oaked reisling, some are available, but I wouldn't think it would be a good thing.

Thanks, didn't know if it was an "always done" type thing. Regards.

 

[NorCal]

My approach to wine making is that less is more. I want a wine that reflects the fruit. I do not like to add anything, unless there is a problem you are trying to fix or prevent. From your latest list:

- I do like goferm/ferm-K as it can prevent H2S and promote a healthy ferment
- I would not add acid, your level would be fine for me.
- I would not add Lysozyme, just keep your SO2 at 50ppm.
- I would not add Opti-White, have not seen a need
- I would not add tannin galalcool, don't know what that is
- I would not add Bentonite, unless it is to solve a clearing problem. Give it 5 months in carboy/container and see if it needs it

 

[MoldyGrapes]

My approach to wine making is that less is more. I want a wine that reflects the fruit. I do not like to add anything, unless there is a problem you are trying to fix or prevent. From your latest list:

- I do like goferm/ferm-K as it can prevent H2S and promote a healthy ferment
- I would not add acid, your level would be fine for me.
- I would not add Lysozyme, just keep your SO2 at 50ppm.
- I would not add Opti-White, have not seen a need
- I would not add tannin galalcool, don't know what that is
- I would not add Bentonite, unless it is to solve a clearing problem. Give it 5 months in carboy/container and see if it needs it

OK, sounds like the prevailing wisdom is to keep it simple. I can do simple.

Last question, do you find the bottled wine to be relatively stable without adding Bentonite?

I don't mind wine diamonds or sediment, but would prefer the wine not to get cloudy or brown if the bottle warms up a bit.

Thanks.

 

[NorCal]

OK, sounds like the prevailing wisdom is to keep it simple. I can do simple.

Last question, do you find the bottled wine to be relatively stable without adding Bentonite?

I don't mind wine diamonds or sediment, but would prefer the wine not to get cloudy or brown if the bottle warms up a bit.

Thanks.

Bentonite is a clearing agent so, if the wine is clear, there is no need. I do find that I need to cold stabilize my whites (fridge for a few weeks) to avoid the crystals.

 

[Johnd]

Bentonite is a clearing agent so, if the wine is clear, there is no need. I do find that I need to cold stabilize my whites (fridge for a few weeks) to avoid the crystals.

Don’t mean to butt in here, but I think when @MoldyGrapes was asking about stability, it may have been protein stability, which bentonite is used to control. In addition to the good info NorCal provided about cold stabilization, might want to read up on the heat test for protein stability, the test will tell you if it’s needed In the wine.

 

[NorCal]

Don’t mean to butt in here, but I think when @MoldyGrapes was asking about stability, it may have been protein stability, which bentonite is used to control. In addition to the good info NorCal provided about cold stabilization, might want to read up on the heat test for protein stability, the test will tell you if it’s needed In the wine.

I haven’t seen a clear wine drop sediment in the bottle, nor a wine go from clear to hazy in bottle. My experience is that once it is clear it will stay clear. Could be wrong, but I’ve always declared victory over protein stability once I get the wine to clear on its own in carboy. It is only when it doesn’t clear on its own is when I reach for a fining agent.

 

[stickman]

Commercial winemakers usually get concerned about heat stability, because they have less control over storage conditions once the bottles leave the winery. Wine being transported or sitting on a grocery store shelf at elevated temperature, can throw a haze that might not otherwise happen if maintained in a proper cellar.

 

[MoldyGrapes]

I haven’t seen a clear wine drop sediment in the bottle, nor a wine go from clear to hazy in bottle. My experience is that once it is clear it will stay clear. Could be wrong, but I’ve always declared victory over protein stability once I get the wine to clear on its own in carboy. It is only when it doesn’t clear on its own is when I reach for a fining agent.

Well, one more question, I purchased the wine bucket and pitched the yeast Thursday night, 4/30, and still do not see any activity, 5/03.

Kit wine is usually at least bubbling by now. Should I be able to see any activity or measure a change in Brix yet?

Concerned I may have stuck fermentation.

 

[stickman]

If the juice was cold you may need one more day to see fermentation. What temperature was the yeast at, and what temperature was the bucket of juice at the time of pitching?

 

[MoldyGrapes]

If the juice was cold you may need one more day to see fermentation. What temperature was the yeast at, and what temperature was the bucket of juice at the time of pitching?

The wine was about 60F when pitched. I kinda messed up the rehydration a bit. Only used 25 ml water, room temperature.

Maintained the juice at cellar temp ~65F untill yesterday when I put a heater on it to try and get things going, now 77F.

 

[mainshipfred]

The first thing I would do is take a gravity reading. If you have no change after increasing the temp something happened with the yeast and I would reinoculate. If you choose to rehydrate be careful of the temperatures. The water should be around 114 when adding the Go Ferm and around 104 when adding the yeast. Once you waited the 15 -20 minutes add some must a little at a time until you get the yeast slurry within 10 degrees of the must. This will also ensure the yeast is active.

 

[MoldyGrapes]

The first thing I would do is take a gravity reading. If you have no change after increasing the temp something happened with the yeast and I would reinoculate. If you choose to rehydrate be careful of the temperatures. The water should be around 114 when adding the Go Ferm and around 104 when adding the yeast. Once you waited the 15 -20 minutes add some must a little at a time until you get the yeast slurry within 10 degrees of the must. This will also ensure the yeast is active.

Just took another SG reading.

Day 1 (initial, evening): 1.100
Day 2: 1.097
Day 3 (morning): 1.094

Am I just being impatient?

 

[Boatboy24]

Am I just being impatient?

Yep.

Expect fermentation to take a week to ten days. Longer at cooler temps.