Sangiovese oaking ?

[Bmd2k1]

Curious what type of oaking peeps are doing for any of their fav Sangiovese vinos?

Was thinking about using the provided light toast American oak chips in primary 2x 33g bags --- then 1 medium toast American oak during 6months of bulk aging.


Cheers!

 

[Neb Farmer]

I've been using these little oak sticks in my 5 gallon carboys of Sangiovese and they seem to work pretty well. I have been using the medium toast French oak ones, (one stick in a 5 gallon carboy), but I am contemplating changing that up and trying the American oak this year. I've usually taken them out after about 2 or 3 months and haven't had any issues with that . However, I have also experimented a bit and left them in a few small batches for a year, and those wines are definitely over-oaked! Drinkable, but real oak bombs! LOL !

https://morewinemaking.com/products/winestix-medium-toast-french-oak-carboy-2-pack.html

 

[Jim Welch]

Just recently made my first Sangiovese, a Finer Wine kit, it’s already on the oak cubes that came with it in the aging carboy. I didn’t record what type oak was included but IIRC it was a French medium toast.

 

[AaronSC]

I don't really think Sangiovese is the kind of grape that is going to work well with "oaking" (oak flavoring). It's naturally lighter, more oof a food-friendly, lighter color and body but aromatic and earthy wine. To me, less is more with a grape like this -it's not going to make a burly, oaky "Robert Parker" style red and adding oak chips or other oak flavorings to it seems to defeat the purpose of making wine with Sangiovese in the first place. I could see aging it in neutral oak barrels since it tends to be somewhat raspy in its youth, though. For home winemaking of small batches I've been using the Speidel plastic storage containers, which have the micro-oxigenation properties of oak without the new oak flavors that can overwhelm a delicate red and turn it into oak tea.

M y two cents, since you asked!

 

[Swedeman]

I don't really think Sangiovese is the kind of grape that is going to work well with "oaking" (oak flavoring). It's naturally lighter, more oof a food-friendly, lighter color and body but aromatic and earthy wine. To me, less is more with a grape like this

True that!

 

[Bmd2k1]

Ok. The RJS kit does come with 66g of American Light Toast chips.....so maybe that will be enough

Used during primary fermentation for the RJS instructions.

Cheers!

 

[Sailor323]

Sangiovese is the most widely grown grape in Italy. Many wines made from it have some degree of oak aging--some Chiantis, Brunello di Montalcino and others, for example. Whether or not a kit can produce wines equal or even similar to those wines is another question. Oaking is largely a matter of personal preference

 

[Swedeman]

Oaking is largely a matter of personal preference

And that is what makes these questions so hard to answer but I do understand why they are asked. Only @Bmd2k1 knows how much oak he likes. Having said that, still think that a Sangiovese kit would be easy to over oak.

I do not know the origin of the grapes in the kit or if it's low end or high end kit. Perhaps the best thing is to split the batch and do half of it as intended by the kit maker and increase the oak and the other half. There is unfortunately no other way to answer the question IMHO.

On a side note, from wkipedia:

Brunello di Montalcino is made 100% from Sangiovese. Traditionally, the wine goes through an extended maceration period where color and flavor are extracted from the skins. Following fermentation the wine is then aged in oak.[6] Traditionally, the wines are aged 3 years or more "in botte"—large Slavonian oak casks that impart little oak flavor and generally produce more austere wines.

 

[sour_grapes]

On a side note, from wkipedia:

Brunello di Montalcino is made 100% from Sangiovese. Traditionally, the wine goes through an extended maceration period where color and flavor are extracted from the skins. Following fermentation the wine is then aged in oak.[6] Traditionally, the wines are aged 3 years or more "in botte"—large Slavonian oak casks that impart little oak flavor and generally produce more austere wines.

Yeah, I was surprised by that. (I looked yesterday.) I am sure you also saw that the "modern style" uses a lot of oak. I "came late to the Brunello party," so I mostly have experienced the quite oaky and tannic versions.

 

[Bmd2k1]

Thanks for the Feedback!

As a relatively new wine maker going thru all of these varietals the very first time -- I'm trying to learn as much as I can from those that have been down the path before --- then I can make some somewhat educated choices, see how things turn out and adjust future batches as needed

Cheers!

 

[sour_grapes]

On a side note, from wkipedia:

Brunello di Montalcino is made 100% from Sangiovese. Traditionally, the wine goes through an extended maceration period where color and flavor are extracted from the skins. Following fermentation the wine is then aged in oak.[6] Traditionally, the wines are aged 3 years or more "in botte"—large Slavonian oak casks that impart little oak flavor and generally produce more austere wines.

By the way, I went hiking in Montalcino in 2015. Here is a shot of some of those large casks. Oh, and since we were out hiking all day, and since there are no restrooms, if you open a bottle of 2015 vintage Brunello, you may get a "little of me" in your wine!

 

[user 38734]

Curious what type of oaking peeps are doing for any of their fav Sangiovese vinos?

Was thinking about using the provided light toast American oak chips in primary 2x 33g bags --- then 1 medium toast American oak during 6months of bulk aging.


Cheers!

Good morning!

Oak or no oak - a matter of preference of course, but if the grapes were not top notch (like kit wines), some oak might be an improvement.

I've been drinking Sangiovese, Nebbiolo, Barbera, Dolcetto, Primitivo, etc. etc. from these neutral barrels, and others like them, for decades and they are tremendously delicious - although they obviously wouldn't garner massive Parker scores if that's your jam.

Good luck and all the best!

 

[Swedeman]

you may get a "little of me" in your wine!

Haha! So that was the off taste in that vintage I thought it was sour grapes...

 

[Wayne Freeman]

By the way, I went hiking in Montalcino in 2015. Here is a shot of some of those large casks. Oh, and since we were out hiking all day, and since there are no restrooms, if you open a bottle of 2015 vintage Brunello, you may get a "little of me" in your wine!

Nice photos!

Here are a couple of mine to add to the evidence that sangiovese-based wines are aged in oak (Chianti is also made from Sangiovese grapes). These are from a wine cellar of a winery near Greve in Chianti when my wife and I were in Italy in 2001. The images lack scale, but those oval casks were about 6-7 feet tall. Notice the beautiful hand-blown glass fermentation locks! I wish I had a closer view of them, they were incredible.

 

[AaronSC]

Yeah, I was surprised by that. (I looked yesterday.) I am sure you also saw that the "modern style" uses a lot of oak. I "came late to the Brunello party," so I mostly have experienced the quite oaky and tannic versions.

There's definitely a split in Italy over the use of new barriques -it was big in the 90's and now they tend to be reserved for export wines to the US, since the sense in Italy is that Americans like big oak and won't tolerate overt acidity well. When I was in Allba a few years ago there was definitely a strong "anti-barrique" sentiment among Barolo producers, bordering on embarrassment over "basically borrowing the wine making style of Bordeaux in order to get higher scores from people like Robert Parker" as one guy said. What was interesting to me was how really different the local wines were compared to what gets exported. The Barbera wines I had in Piemonte were strikingly acidic, which I really liked, but when I bought ones here after returning they seemed to be flabby and stylistically very different. The local Amador County Barberas are definitely made in the New World style and tend to be very ripe and often aged in barriques.

Since 2023 was such a "European" year in CA I have some Barbera that was harvested at the end of October that I think is awesome and totally reminds me of the Barbera in Piemonte but I'm worried Californians would just reject it. I'm curious what people here think -would folk generally be receptive to a young, high-acid version of Barbera?

 

[AaronSC]

Nice photos!

Here are a couple of mine to add to the evidence that sangiovese-based wines are aged in oak (Chianti is also made from Sangiovese grapes). These are from a wine cellar of a winery near Greve in Chianti when my wife and I were in Italy in 2001. The images lack scale, but those oval casks were about 6-7 feet tall. Notice the beautiful hand-blown glass fermentation locks! I wish I had a closer view of them, they were incredible.

View attachment 76434View attachment 76435

These are traditional throughout most of Italy and the South of France -they don't any real oak taste or smell, unlike oak chips or wands, etc.