saving wine

[winemaker81]

I'm in the habit of pouring the liquid left in the bottom of the fermenter into a tall bottle, putting it in the refrigerator, and letting it clear. It's amazing how much wine is saved doing this.

Last weekend I racked a Winexpert Australian Chardonnay kit, and poured the remainder into a bottle, which produced this:



Pretty ugly, isn't it???

The bottle went into the refrigerator, and five days later I have this:



The cloudiness visible on the top part is condensation.

I carefully siphoned the wine off the (rather loose) sediment, and put the wine in a clean 375 ml screw cap bottle. I will keep this separate and taste it in a few weeks. If it's fine, I'll use it for topup. Note -- I've never had a problem doing this, but keep the wine separate due to paranoia.

Last spring I racked a 54 liter barrel, capturing 1.5 liters of sludge. A week later the lees compacted to 1", so I recovered almost a full 2 bottles of wine. This wine was HIGHLY oaked and undrinkable (I had added 6 oz French oak cubes to a neutral barrel) as the wine closest to the cubes was the most heavily oaked. I later used the recovered wine to top the barrel, and that over-the-top oakiness distributed nicely in the wine, producing a happy result.

 

[Rappatuz]

I do exactly the same.

This is especially useful when making small volumes. The recovered wine is great for topping up.

 

[tradowsk]

I do the same as well! Typically, I use a mason jar and use my autosiphon to rack it out of there when it separates. Much easier with a wide-mouth jar

 

[winemaker81]

I use the insert from the autosiphon. I find I lose less wine from this second racking with a narrower bottle. But it all works!

 

[pete1325]

I do the same but the taste is not the greatest.

 

[mainshipfred]

I do the same but the taste is not the greatest.

Have to admit I never tasted it, just save it for topping up.

 

[winemaker81]

I don't leave it long on the lees, especially with a wine/lees ratio like in my pictures. The flavor can be harsh, but I find that reduces with time. As I said, I keep the wine separate for weeks or even months, and have not had a problem using it.

 

[Chinook]

I'm in the habit of pouring the liquid left in the bottom of the fermenter into a tall bottle, putting it in the refrigerator, and letting it clear. It's amazing how much wine is saved doing this.

Last weekend I racked a Winexpert Australian Chardonnay kit, and poured the remainder into a bottle, which produced this:

View attachment 66660

Pretty ugly, isn't it???

The bottle went into the refrigerator, and five days later I have this:

View attachment 66661

The cloudiness visible on the top part is condensation.

I carefully siphoned the wine off the (rather loose) sediment, and put the wine in a clean 375 ml screw cap bottle. I will keep this separate and taste it in a few weeks. If it's fine, I'll use it for topup. Note -- I've never had a problem doing this, but keep the wine separate due to paranoia.

Last spring I racked a 54 liter barrel, capturing 1.5 liters of sludge. A week later the lees compacted to 1", so I recovered almost a full 2 bottles of wine. This wine was HIGHLY oaked and undrinkable (I had added 6 oz French oak cubes to a neutral barrel) as the wine closest to the cubes was the most heavily oaked. I later used the recovered wine to top the barrel, and that over-the-top oakiness distributed nicely in the wine, producing a happy result.

Exactly what I do. I
Since some beginners time when got caught short,, with my methods now I am never short on the ullage I carefully calculate more water than 23l accounting for lees etc. So I use "overflow " small bottles. I have all sizes from 45 - 65 -100 - 250 1000 2000 ml.
To rack a small bottle just carefully pour it off, stopping before the messy stuff.
..
The overflow bottles get merged back with the main body so the overflow bottles become mostly lee bottles (but still some wine). At stabilization stage I process these overflow bottles if any left with sulfide sorbate, sparkloid , pectic enzyme, whatever necessary.
As for getting the most out of the less at some stage I decide enough is enough, I simply press them dry between two ordinary kitchen wire strainers and then toss them - enough is enough just de-liquidify a bit dry squeeze out some concentrated addition that I put in etc - don't want to ruin the taste with something doesn't belong

 

[ybl84f1]

This topic spawned all sorts of unstructured questions about "topping up" in my head. Adding store bought wine feels like I'm doing something wrong and compromising my wine that I put so much work into.

I'm just beginning my wine making journey and just made my 3rd kit ever, the WinExpert Australian Chardonnay and that first picture looks exactly (volume and color) of what I left behind when I racked it. Unfortunately I did not think about collecting it for later.

My limited experience by doing WE 23L wine kits - the basic steps that I think are common to most/all of their kits are:

1. Ferment (bucket)
2. Rack (6g carboy)
3. Add Meta/Sorbate, degas.
4. Add Kieselsol/Chotosan, wait X days to clear (typically between 11 and 49) & bottle.

Of course you're losing wine each time you measure SG during fermentation, and then when you rack to the carboy, and then every time you sample/test it while it's clearing. Note that per WE instructions you only rack once because you then bottle after clearing, and also WE says topping up the carboy is not necessary (presumably because there's enough Meta/Sorbate in there even for a generous head space).

But what would be the ideal racking process be such that you minimize headspace, minimize store-bought wine and store extra for topping off as you lose wine via racking and for sampling/testing?

• Would you rack to a 5g carboy (instead of 6g) and then store the (less than 1g) remainder as reserve? If so, it wouldn't have Meta or Sorbate...would you add some? Does this reserve need to be refrigerated? If not protected, when you add this reserve back in later could it inoculate the wine with anything it might be carrying?
• If you wanted to age in the carboy (as opposed to bottling) then you would need to rack a second time after clearing to get it off the lees; would you rack the first time to a 6g per the directions and then the second time to two 3g, perhaps filling the first one completely and topping off the second one with store wine (and future sampling/testing from only the second one)?

I'm sure there's no one or right answer, and "it depends" on a lot of things like how many times you're going to sample or rack., etc. and that there's other options - I guess I'm just looking for any BKMs from others. Thanks.

 

[winemaker81]

Adding store bought wine feels like I'm doing something wrong and compromising my wine that I put so much work into.

Look at this differently -- you are protecting your investment.

Of course you're losing wine each time you measure SG during fermentation

DO NOT throw your wine out!

Make sure all your equipment is clean and sanitized. Draw the sample, test the SG, pour the sample back into the carboy. Or use a Fermtech Wine thief to draw the sample, test it, and put it back into the carboy.

If your equipment is clean and sanitized, the sample is perfectly safe. You are not contaminating your wine.

I had an acquaintance who racked his wines monthly. At each racking he tossed at least a pint of wine from each carboy because it was "contaminated", and looked at everyone in horror when we suggested he not rack monthly (it's counter-productive as it exposes the wine more) and not throw out his test samples. Yet he complained at how much wine he lost from each carboy by the end of a year.

WE says topping up the carboy is not necessary (presumably because there's enough Meta/Sorbate in there even for a generous head space).

I was highly skeptical of this practice, but enough folks have reported that not topping up the kit is ok. IMO it works because the kit ages for a relatively short amount of time AND oxygen does not destroy wine quickly. Oxidation is a factor of the amount of head space, the volume of the wine, and time.

Also, if you are racking your kit carefully, your 23 liter volume only drops by about 1 to 1.5 liters after all rackings.

Personally, I top my wines because if I do, the threat of oxidation is eliminated. If you are bulk aging longer than kit instructions indicate, topup the wine to be safe.

But what would be the ideal racking process be such that you minimize headspace, minimize store-bought wine and store extra for topping off as you lose wine via racking and for sampling/testing?

Yup -- put the wine in a 19 liter carboy and store the remainder in smaller containers. I have a collection of bottles from 200 ml on up, and a #3 drilled stopper fits a standard wine bottle. If all containers are filled, there is no need to do anything special like refrigeration. Keep in mind that you need a bunch of drilled stoppers and airlocks.

There are many ways to address headspace, but this is IMO the easiest. It works for 23 liter kits, and I plan grape, juice, and fruit wine batches so that my primary container(s) will be filled and I'll have topup.

Sorbate prevents a renewed fermentation. K-meta helps with oxidation, but if you have a lot of headspace for a long period, it's not enough.

Between the alcohol and the acid, wine is a preservation system. If you keep things clean and sanitized, your wine generally safe.

 

[Scooter68]

I do not understand where people are getting this idea of tossing out wine from your SG OR pH testing.
1) All your test equipment should be sanitized - no problem there
2) Unless you have added chemicals to do TA test your sample is not contaminated.

SO why in the world would I toss out perfectly good wine that I used to get an SG reading or even a pH reading done with just the pH meter?

Who is telling people they need to do this? I've never seen anyone post that sort of guidance on here.

 

[winemaker81]

I do not understand where people are getting this idea of tossing out wine from your SG OR pH testing.

I recall this advice in one of the wine making books I read many moons ago. I did it at first, then realized it was a waste of good wine.

 

[Scooter68]

I recall this advice in one of the wine making books I read many moons ago. I did it at first, then realized it was a waste of good wine.

Wow!

By the way like that photo of the settled out wine. I put a very cloudy bottle of Blackberry light lees in the fridge and two days later got out 5-6 oz with my turkey baster. Put the rest back in and last I looked it had maybe another 1 oz. I'd go pull that out today but it's across our field at the other house and it's about 1.5f outside right now.

 

[winemaker81]

I read an amazing amount of bad advice in my early years. I was told at least as much.\

Today? Go to YouTube for the best in bad advice!!!

By the way like that photo of the settled out wine.

Thanks! It's amazing what we can recover. If it's only a glass ... well ... it's MY glass.

In the course of a year, that one acquaintance of mine was tossing away a fifth of his wine, and he called everyone who disagreed with him foolish.

Using my tricks, e.g., tilting the carboy, recovering sludge, etc. I figure I often save 10%. For me in 2020, that amounts to a carboy and a half. It's not trivial.

 

[ybl84f1]

Thanks all and especially @winemaker81 for the detailed response - appreciate all the great tips. I guess I'm on the hunt now for some smaller containers! As far as discarding the wine from the SG testing, I made my first kit only a few months ago with a buddy who brews beer and...well....we just tossed it! I can't blame him though - I've done 2 more kits since then and didn't even think about how foolish that was. I guess that's exactly the reason I'm on this site - to learn from the pros here!

 

[Khristyjeff]

Thanks all and especially @winemaker81 for the detailed response - appreciate all the great tips. I guess I'm on the hunt now for some smaller containers! As far as discarding the wine from the SG testing, I made my first kit only a few months ago with a buddy who brews beer and...well....we just tossed it! I can't blame him though - I've done 2 more kits since then and didn't even think about how foolish that was. I guess that's exactly the reason I'm on this site - to learn from the pros here!

You should consider a universal bung with a hole. The correct size will fit most carboys (make sure you are ordering the right size--learned from experience) and you can invert them to fit over old wine bottles. The airlock fits in the hole.

 

[Khristyjeff]

Thanks all and especially @winemaker81 for the detailed response - appreciate all the great tips. I guess I'm on the hunt now for some smaller containers! As far as discarding the wine from the SG testing, I made my first kit only a few months ago with a buddy who brews beer and...well....we just tossed it! I can't blame him though - I've done 2 more kits since then and didn't even think about how foolish that was. I guess that's exactly the reason I'm on this site - to learn from the pros here!

You should consider a universal bung with a hole. The correct size will fit most carboys (make sure you are ordering the right size--learned from experience) and you can invert them to fit over old wine bottles. The airlock fits in the hole. View attachment 71722

 

[Khristyjeff]

Sorry about the double post. It didn't appear to work the first time.

 

[winemaker81]

Thanks all and especially @winemaker81 for the detailed response - appreciate all the great tips. I guess I'm on the hunt now for some smaller containers! As far as discarding the wine from the SG testing, I made my first kit only a few months ago with a buddy who brews beer and...well....we just tossed it! I can't blame him though - I've done 2 more kits since then and didn't even think about how foolish that was. I guess that's exactly the reason I'm on this site - to learn from the pros here!

You're in the right place, doing the right thing -- listening and thinking. There's a lot of collective knowledge in this forum, and that knowledge base grows weekly. I think of myself as a lifelong student -- there's always something new to learn.

 

[mainshipfred]

I read an amazing amount of bad advice in my early years. I was told at least as much.\

Today? Go to YouTube for the best in bad advice!!!


Thanks! It's amazing what we can recover. If it's only a glass ... well ... it's MY glass.

In the course of a year, that one acquaintance of mine was tossing away a fifth of his wine, and he called everyone who disagreed with him foolish.

Using my tricks, e.g., tilting the carboy, recovering sludge, etc. I figure I often save 10%. For me in 2020, that amounts to a carboy and a half. It's not trivial.

When I first started making wine I took a six week (once a week) crash vintner's class at a local winery. There were about 10 people in the class, mostly home winemakers and they all had more experience than me. The winemaker had very few filters when it came to home winemaking questions about practices he disagreed with so I learned early on not to ask questions. I realize had a different winemaker been teaching the the response to the questions may have been different since there are a lot of personal decisions and practices in winemaking. He could have been more companionate but in his defense and the more experience I gained some of the questions about practices were just plain silly. One of which was dumping SG wine.