True but maybe it's for quick consumption and bottling, I'm wondering if one just uses chitosin and skip the kliesol all together. The bentonite is still used in the primary during fermentation. I'm interested in trying a side by side comparison with the same kit, one with clearing agents and one without. I don't mind waiting 3-4 months for it to clear naturally assuming I degas directly after fermentation. The issue I have is waiting 1 year in the carboy to clear. Something about leaving the dead yeast in the wine floating around for a long period of time doesn't sound appealing. I'm mostly just looking to see if the clearing agents strip the wine of tannin and perhaps that's why kit wines seem to never really be high in tannin. Or perhaps it's because they don't have alot of tannin regardless of the clearing agents so the kits can be consumed sooner, plus not alot of people really like tannic wines. I always find I want a touch more tannin in alot of kit wines, even 18l kits with skins.
So you guys use clearing agents?
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Sure do a side-by-side, knock yourself out. I don't think it will make enough difference for you to taste.
Whenever someone worries about stuff floating around for long periods of time, I like to ask them to ponder a bit on commercial wineries. I don't think many add any clearing agents before the year mark and then they only add them if they are required.
<Begin Opinion> I think kit wines have taught many folks a bad habit, ferment, move to glass, degas and force clear. I think it is better to ferment, move to glass, let age and degas, clear only if required. As always YMMV </End Opinion>
It's so hard for me to comment on kits since I only made 4 before going to buckets and now only grapes. But I have always been in agreement with your sentiment on commercial wineries. Most often people want to compare their wines to commercial ones but don't want to follow the procedures commercial wineries use.
Alright so I will try it your way, except I'll degas to help with clearing as soon as fermentation is done and let it sit for three weeks. After which if it drops alot of sediment I'll rack and add oak and leave it for three months and see where it takes me, tasting it along the way. Do you typically add the oak after adding clearing agents if required or before?
skyfire322
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Very good point. I've only made kits so far, and I have the RTFM mindset. I think some might become a bit "panicky" that if you don't follow the directions to the letter, it'll turn out like a fart in a hot car. I'm trying so hard to break that habit!
I just found the wine expert new instructions for 208, apparently they now use the two part clearing agents and 30g bentonite...apparently after years of R &D they concluded this was the best for claroty, taste, ect. Just as good for thought.
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I typically add the oak when I do the first addition of sulphite. Here is my kit schedule and this is a more or less, mostly more. Mix kit up, almost all the kits I do have skins, put in refrigerator for two weeks to one month, stir occasionally. Remove, let warm to room temp (basement temp), rehydrate heat, add. Let ferment down to about 1.000 or less, rack to carboy, let fermentation finish two or three weeks. Rack, add oak, sulphite. Let sit for three months or more. Rack, add sulphite, taste, decide if enough oak, tannin, etc.let sit 3 months. Rack, taste, decide if there needs to be any additional adjustments, let sit the months, rack, taste, decide if happy with it. Think about bottling or let sit for another 3-6 months. Clearing, if needed happens somewhat in that last sit and sometimes I filter at 5 microns or so. After bottling, let sit the months, taste one, wait three months, taste another one. Ready to add to rotation of drinking.
And I generally use the yeast supplied with the kit. I figure by the time I will be bottling /drinking any benefits from different hats may be all gone.
If from grapes there are a few more steps and I try to get the temp up higher, but most of the time the hybrid grapes I can get in Missouri do fine with color.
This is a kind of disappointing news or happy news? I have gathered a big bag of EC-1118 since I swapped yeast for almost all the latest batches. I listened to an episode of "Inside wine making podcast". The professional winemaker also said the same thing. Sounds it is time to put my EC-1118 back into batches.
For reds, I always skip all the clearing agents including bentonite unless I plan to bottle in a month. No problem has be found so far. Bentonite produces way too much sludge.
Clearing agent acts like the coagulant in water treatment, which neutralize charges and adsorb colloid material including tannin to help settle out. It can strip flavor that we make every effort to extract from skin.
Even for white, I found time works better than chemicals.
I add whatever clearing agents the manufacturer includes with the kit. If I have a problem with it not clearing as it should, I hit it with SuperKleer/ Dual Fine. I've never had a problem with any cloudiness or sediment in a bottle even after 5 years.
With all due respect, how have you found that?
If bottled quickly by the instruction with chemical addition, I found sometime the fluffy thing still shows up after several months of storage . It also happened in a nouveau red kit I did. However, given enough time, (9 month plus) without any clearing chemical, the wine can be very clear and usually quite stable.
I found an old post showing how much of the clearing agents to use, now I'm not against using them but I'm thinking about using less as I'm not really interested in bulk aging for a year, maybe 6 months though. The wine kit store i go to has two big sales twice a year, I usually buy like 6 kits and I only have 7 carboys.
What's wrong with using half the amount of clearing agents they give? I'm sure it would help clear faster but won't take a year this way? I noticed with the high end kits they give even more, 150Ml chitosin and 25Ml kliesol which is alot and I've been adding that. The cheap kits only give 75ml and 12.5ml
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