Sorbate & K-meta combined

[tjgaul]

I saw this quote in another thread.

This is my first Cellar Craft kit in over 10 years, and also first CC with grapeskins. I have to get a bit creative, as Cellar Craft has chosen to combine the sulfite and sorbate in one package.

I just started 2 Eclipse kits (Stags Leap Merlot & Sonoma Pinot Noir). They also came with a combined Sorbate and Sulphite package. Are the manufacturers trying to make things simpler or is there some concern with all of the experienced home winemakers omitting the sorbate when making a fully dry wine?

I don't see the benefit in combining the 2 ingredients as it limits your ability to exert more control over the end product. BTW . . . if anyone needs sorbate I probably have 10-15 unopened packets (ha).

Anyone seeing this trend among other kit makers?

 

[Rice_Guy]

I just started 2 Eclipse kits (Stags Leap Merlot & Sonoma Pinot Noir). . .combined Sorbate and Sulphite . .
I don't see the benefit in combining the 2 ingredients . . .

it reduces cost of product, , maybe by 25 cents

 

[ras2018]

I think this is specific to Winexpert only at the moment. I just did an RJS and they were separate

 

[crushday]

Can you describe the package or, better yet, take a picture and post it?

 

[ras2018]

Can you describe the package or, better yet, take a picture and post it?

It’s about double the size of the normal white packets you get and says “sulfite / sorbate” on it. The one in the Barbaresco kit was 9g I believe.

 

[crushday]

It’s about double the size of the normal white packets you get and says “sulfite / sorbate” on it. The one in the Barbaresco kit was 9g I believe.

That’s good to know. I have noticed a change in the packets that simply say “sulfite” now. I guess that’s Kmeta still.

 

[tjgaul]

Here's the new packet compared to a standard 2 pack kit. The SL Merlot had the new single packet while the PN had the usual.

 

[JustJoe]

What does sorbate do that kmeta does not do? I thought both would kill any yeast or other microbes.

 

[stickman]

Kmeta is an anti-oxidant and anti-microbial, though it should be understood that it doesn't kill everything. Potassium sorbate is used to prevent yeast from reproducing, it too doesn't actually kill anything, viable yeast will continue to ferment. My opinion is that kit manufacturers include sorbate to reduce the liability associated with exploding bottles.

 

[JustJoe]

Kmeta is an anti-oxidant and anti-microbial, though it should be understood that it doesn't kill everything. Potassium sorbate is used to prevent yeast from reproducing, it too doesn't actually kill anything, viable yeast will continue to ferment. My opinion is that kit manufacturers include sorbate to reduce the liability associated with exploding bottles.

Thanks!

 

[GretchenR]

I want to do a comparison of a kit wine with all the regular chemicals vs a kit wine with only kmeta. Unfortunately, the kit I chose to do this with, VineCo Cabernet Shiraz, has the sulfite and sorbate in one package, as discussed above (apparently all Global Vintner brands do this now). I am ready to rack from primary into secondary, and I'm going to rack into two three-gallon carboys. My question is this: I can use half of the combined pack for the regular batch, but how much kmeta goes in the reduced-chemical batch? My usual dose of kmeta when I rack is 1/4 tsp for six gallons, so should I use 1/8 tsp? Or is this first addition of kmeta usually a different amount? I appreciate your help. I'll report back (in 18 months) after I bulk age (so it will have time to clear) and bottle and let it settle, to answer the question: can I taste the difference between wine made with sorbate, kieselsol and chitosan and wine made without it?

 

[Rice_Guy]

@GretchenR I use 0.20 gm sorbate per gallon. , ,, this is probably equivalent to your standard. Next, on an 18 month wine I would not use sorbate. The yeast should have died off by a year of age. Flavor? on occasion sorbate will react and produce off flavors. Yes when doing malolactic it produces geraminum, but there are other break down products that happen without malo, ,,, I avoid sorbate to the extent that I can. ,,, In defense of sorbate when I bottle young and add sorbate I haven’t really had flavor issues.

The fining chemicals may be ignored when you use 18 months time. Their function is to pull turbidity out in a ninety day process.

 

[winemaker81]

Unfortunately, the kit I chose to do this with, VineCo Cabernet Shiraz, has the sulfite and sorbate in one package, as discussed above (apparently all Global Vintner brands do this now).

All the mainstream kits appear to combine sorbate + K-meta. Use the normal K-meta dosage, e.g., 1/4 tsp per 5 or 6 gallons of wine.

I'm planning on doing the opposite -- I have a pair of triple batches barrel aging. When I remove them from the barrels this fall I'm going to add the K&C to a 19 liter carboy of each wine, to see how much is pulled from the wine after 12 months of aging. In theory it should be nothing.